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Old 10-16-2019, 06:59 PM   #1
Dave36ford
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Default Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Rather new here, tried to search but didn’t see what I was looking for so sorry in advance if this has been covered.

I just purchased a 30-31 roadster cowl and doors, planning to build a rpu. In the deal, the guy through in a frame. Figured I could use it for mock up or what not. I do not have a title for what I bought, just a notarized bill of sale.

Looking at the frame, the serial number is clear. Starts with a star, followed by 7 numbers then ends in a star. Using a chart I found on here, it was built in April 1931. Was thinking about trying to obtain a title for it? I could have the police run a vin search on it. I’ve tried to look online but all of the sites say the vin is invalid, thinking because it’s so old and not the ‘current’ format?

If a vin search comes up clean, notarized bill of sale and pencil tracing of the serial number, do I have a shot at a title? If so, can I get it while in pieces as a project car? I’d like to have this squared away before I go too far.

I’m in New Jersey. My original plan was to find an original rolling chassis with a title and then use my body. I’ve seen a few of them around for sale. But now curious if I can title this frame.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:08 PM   #2
Bob C
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

This link may help a little. http://www.semasan.com/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_NJ.pdf


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Old 10-16-2019, 07:40 PM   #3
Dick Steinkamp
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Every state has different laws about what you are trying to do. Make sure you get advice ONLY from those who have done what you want to do in NEW JERSEY.

You should probably research at New Jersey's Motor Vehicle Commission on line, or go into one of their offices and explain what you want to do.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

without a title- you wont get a title in NJ


Lived here my whole life and they want a title to turn into a title. other states are different.


drop me a line if you want to discuss further- rdz69@aol.com
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Cow Hampshire will issue a title for a vehicle after a "title confirmation." One of the local men or women in blue come to your house and "verify" the number you put on the title application to the state.

I did this to an AA rolling engine/chassis before selling it to a Texas buyer - he would have had uber hoops to jump through to get it titled - which is required in Texas before registration. The titling here was part of the "deal" and pretty easily done.

I don't think Cow Hampshire is very stringent on title examination. Heck, you don't even need a title for a vehicle transfer if it is over 10 years old.

https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...ply/exempt.htm

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New Hampshire does not issue titles for vehicles that have a model year of 1999 or older, except for heavy trucks with three (3) axles or more, or truck tractors whose gross vehicle weight exceeds 18,000 pounds which must always be titled regardless of age. Also, vehicles that are over 25 years of age may only be titled at an owner's request.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe K View Post
Cow Hampshire will issue a title for a vehicle after a "title confirmation." One of the local men or women in blue come to your house and "verify" the number you put on the title application to the state.

I did this to an AA rolling engine/chassis before selling it to a Texas buyer - he would have had uber hoops to jump through to get it titled - which is required in Texas before registration. The titling here was part of the "deal" and pretty easily done.

I don't think Cow Hampshire is very stringent on title examination. Heck, you don't even need a title for a vehicle transfer if it is over 10 years old.

https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...ply/exempt.htm

Joe K

Thanks so far to all who have chimed in. Was reading about registering in Vermont, even as a non-resident, then transferring to NJ. Seems odd, but maybe Iíll call VT DMV tomorrow and ask a few questions.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

You can do it in Vermont, from what I understand. There are forms on their web site, but you need to get a police officer to come look at the number and run it through NCIC and get a letter on their letterhead to go with the form they sign. Not all police agencies will do it. https://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/ve...ion-number-vin
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Check out Broadway Title
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:55 AM   #9
Dave36ford
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Just got off the phone with both VT and NJ DMV, process sounds quite odd but maybe it'll work?

VT said all they need is a signed bill of sale, fill out the registration form, pay the fees (reg form fee and sales tax on the lowest NADA value of the 'car'). Total fees would be somewhere around $700. (ouch)

NJ said if I have a registration in my name from VT, I would need a notarized bill of sale saying I'm the seller and the buyer with the the sales prices as 'gift', VT registration card, NJ drivers license, fill out the reg form and pay $60.

The whole bill of sale of me selling the car to myself as a gift seems really odd. But that's straight from the mouth of the NJ DMV rep out of Trenton...

Honestly don't know if it's worth shelling out almost $800 dollars for. My plan all along was to look for a model a rolling chassis with a title and go that route, seems more legit? And then I can use some of the components and what not as well.

That all being said, I already have this frame so it'd be neat to use it. Based on the stampings it was built in April 1931 which is also really cool because I bought this as a father son project and we were both born in April, ha!
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Old 10-17-2019, 03:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Um. NJ is looking like THEY get that Sales Tax too.

https://www.nj.gov/mvc/pdf/vehicles/GU30.pdf

Like Cow Hampshire, it seems NJ allows you to apply for title of ANY vehicle you already own?

https://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/vehicles/OS-SS-7.pdf

Maybe better to just do it directly? The only hang-up I see is one of "value" in the upper RH corner. Maybe a margin note $200?


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Last edited by Joe K; 10-17-2019 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

yes VT wants extreme $ for tax and they get it.


ask for a 41 willys registration and see what they charge.


this is why people "buy" titles..........
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Many states do not recognize Broadway Title as a legitimate source. Check before you spend any money.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

as Denis says and last I looked Broadway was over 1000.


no kidding!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:38 AM   #14
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

I live in NJ and here is what I know.

So NJ has a 12 point plan to get a title. In fact they will mail you a package with the following (more or less) instructions.

It starts with paying the surrounding 5 states for title search on the number. Then you pay for an application process. Pay to put an ad in a major newspaper for a few weeks. Pay to get a bond.

This applies to anything titled including boats.

I estimated the costs to be about $800.

I bought my fordor from VT. You mail in a bill of sale and a few weeks later you get a registration and a plate.
You take the registration and plates to the MVC and in my case the lady at the counter said I was wrong but the lady in the back told her to go to the master book. They have a master book with examples of all the titles and such. Then she came back took the plates and paper work and a bit later I had a title and a registration.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:16 AM   #15
ronn
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Kevin,
that black book is known as a POLK


I have a copy myself. shows all of the registrations and titles from each and every state.


In the end, VT or the NJ method you prescribe is still quite expensive. Have to pay the piper.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:57 PM   #16
Dave36ford
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
I live in NJ and here is what I know.

So NJ has a 12 point plan to get a title. In fact they will mail you a package with the following (more or less) instructions.

It starts with paying the surrounding 5 states for title search on the number. Then you pay for an application process. Pay to put an ad in a major newspaper for a few weeks. Pay to get a bond.

This applies to anything titled including boats.

I estimated the costs to be about $800.

I bought my fordor from VT. You mail in a bill of sale and a few weeks later you get a registration and a plate.
You take the registration and plates to the MVC and in my case the lady at the counter said I was wrong but the lady in the back told her to go to the master book. They have a master book with examples of all the titles and such. Then she came back took the plates and paper work and a bit later I had a title and a registration.
So VT told me today that if I register it there, I need to bring it up there to have an inspection in 15 days. As a shell right now, thatís not going to pass. Did you have to do that?

When you brought your VT reg and plates to NJ DMV, did you have to write a bill of sale from yourself to yourself and say it was a Ďgiftí to avoid paying tax again?
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:58 PM   #17
Dave36ford
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronn View Post
Kevin,
that black book is known as a POLK


I have a copy myself. shows all of the registrations and titles from each and every state.


In the end, VT or the NJ method you prescribe is still quite expensive. Have to pay the piper.
Iím ok with paying if it legitimately works. Hearing some conflicting details even from VT DMV so I donít want to pay all this money to then have a different problem.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

I think you should look for another Model A that is already registered in New Jersey. Find what you really want. The project you are thinking of is BIG and there is a BIG chance of never finishing it. The odds are against you. Find something close to being driveable at least for your first project. Please.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave36ford View Post
So VT told me today that if I register it there, I need to bring it up there to have an inspection in 15 days. As a shell right now, that’s not going to pass. Did you have to do that?
VT will send you a title, unless you plan to drive it you won't have to register it. two different things. When you get the title you can then start the process to change the VT title to a NJ title.

I have done this, VT collects taxes (NADA value) and then I had to fill out a form, in MA, that I swore I paid taxes already, to get a MA Title without paying more taxes. Of, course there were fees in MA like you described in post #9.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: Frame serial number to obtain a title?

Have you thought about a bonded title? That is what I had to do here in AZ when transferred from MN to here with a clear title and registration on the vehicle there and the AZ Inspector could not find the frame serial number as had been covered up with paint during the restoration, but the motor serial number matched the title. I did see the frame number before was stripped and painted. Did not mask off the serial number on the frame so could be read. If had to do again would have re-stamped the serial number so would have been more readable.
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