‘50 Won’t Go Into Gear - Help

[Jengah]

Hi Everyone.

I inherited my fathers 1950 ford custom deluxe convertible. It’s at my mothers house and I only get up to see her about once or twice a year. Whenever I’m there I start the car up and try and take it for a spin. The last couple times I drove it, it was grinding when going into gear. This last time when I went there after starting it, I couldn’t get it to go into gear at all.

My neighbor is a mechanic and he said since it’s been sitting so long, it’s possible there’s some problems with corrosion on the clutch or pressure plate, but he thinks it might be able to be freed up with adjusting the throwout distance. He thought it was an easy adjustment that can be done on the outside of the transmission.

I’m heading back up there this weekend to try and address the problem. I only have a couple hours to play with it. Does anyone have any suggestions. I am mechanically inclined, but don’t know this car very well.

Thank you for the help.

[tubman]

I had this same problem with my '51 club coupe when I stored it for several years in a barn. We solved it by dragging it out of the barn, push starting it, and driving it up and down the road with the clutch pushed in, getting on and off the gas with the clutch pedal held to the floor until it broke loose. It didn't really take much to get it free. However, the clutch never operated properly after that, and I ended up replacing the disc and pressure plate and refacing the flywheel.

You can probably free it up, but look forward to replacing just about everything.

The worst thing you can do to an old car is to just let it sit.

[Jengah]

Thanks Tubman - at least I know I’m not alone. Any idea why doing this would ruin the clutch? Or is more that the clutch was already ruined and this is just a quick fix to be able to get it into gear?

[cas3]

i have freed them up in the same manor as tubman says, but with good luck, they have been fine. gotta put some miles on when you get it working to clear the rust

[tubman]

Unfortunately, it's usually the latter.

[flatford8]

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If it has sat long enough for the clutch plate to stick......you may want to check the brakes and steering and make sure everything is in good shape there....at least check the parking brake before trying to move the car very far....congrats on being the next caretaker of your Dads car......good luck!!!!.....pictures????...we love pictures!!!!......Mark

[Mike51Merc]

Clutch plate is probably stuck to the flywheel.
Will it go into gear with the engine off?
Instead of pushing the car around, put it in gear (any gear) with the parking brake on and then momentarily hit the starter button (key) a couple of times. That has a good chance of freeing the clutch plate.

As far as ruining the clutch, if it breaks it needed fixing anyway.

[richard crow]

visit your mother more offen i wish i could visit mine she passed when i was young

[19Fordy]

Much wisdom from Mr. Crow.

[Gene1949]

x2 Mr crow

[Flathead Fever]

Disable the ignition if your going to try and crank this engine, in gear, with a stuck clutch disc. If it were to start it could take off on you. Jack up the rear end if you decide to try and start it.

Make sure you do not have too much free play in the clutch adjustment. The reason I say that is because it did go into gear with a little grinding before but now it won’t go in at all. My concern is it wasn’t stuck to the flywheel when it was going into gear but with a little grinding. That sounds more like an adjustment problem or the input shaft is sticking to the pilot bearing.

It could have been that the pilot bearing was sticking to the input shaft when it was beginning to grind going into gear and now the disc is also stuck to the flywheel?

[Mike in AZ]

Welcome to the ‘Barn and the joy of flatheads. Good luck with getting it moving again. Mike

[Jengah]

Oooohh - I like that idea. Fingers crossed.

Thanks

[Jengah]

Originally Posted by richard crow

visit your mother more offen i wish i could visit mine she passed when i was young

Sage advice for the lot of us.

[Jengah]

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

Clutch plate is probably stuck to the flywheel.
Will it go into gear with the engine off?
Instead of pushing the car around, put it in gear (any gear) with the parking brake on and then momentarily hit the starter button (key) a couple of times. That has a good chance of freeing the clutch plate.

As far as ruining the clutch, if it breaks it needed fixing anyway.

Thanks Mike - I'll try this. And yes, it will go into gear with the engine off.

[Jengah]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

Disable the ignition if your going to try and crank this engine, in gear, with a stuck clutch disc. If it were to start it could take off on you. Jack up the rear end if you decide to try and start it.

Make sure you do not have too much free play in the clutch adjustment. The reason I say that is because it did go into gear with a little grinding before but now it won’t go in at all. My concern is it wasn’t stuck to the flywheel when it was going into gear but with a little grinding. That sounds more like an adjustment problem or the input shaft is sticking to the pilot bearing.

It could have been that the pilot bearing was sticking to the input shaft when it was beginning to grind going into gear and now the disc is also stuck to the flywheel?

Hi Flathead -

No disprespect to every body else's suggestions, but I think your logic makes the most sense. Due to the gradual worsening of the situation, you make me think this could be the case. Is there any way to loosen things up without taking out the transmission?

On annother note... This may be a dumb question, but how do I crank the engine if I disable the ingnition? Do you mean by rolling it and popping it into gear?

[tubman]

To disable the ignition, but not the starter, pull the secondary coil wire (the fat one).

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by Jengah

Hi Flathead -

No disprespect to every body else's suggestions, but I think your logic makes the most sense. Due to the gradual worsening of the situation, you make me think this could be the case. Is there any way to loosen things up without taking out the transmission?

On annother note... This may be a dumb question, but how do I crank the engine if I disable the ingnition? Do you mean by rolling it and popping it into gear?

I meant disable the coil so it won't start but you would still be able to crank the engine.

I've never tried to loosen up a sticking pilot bearing or clutch disc. My experience is working on my own cars and working on a fleet telephone trucks for 30-year's. If there was a problem with a clutch we just pulled the trans. Swapped out a resurfaced flywheel, replaced the pressure plate and disc, throw-out bearing and pilot bearing and the problem was solved. You already have the vehicle up on the hoist for inspection. In a couple hours you can have the trans out, new clutch installed and have it bolted back together. Then you know its done right and there is not going to be anymore problems. Do it once and do it right.

We worked nights until 12:30 am. One Christmas Eve we could go home for Christmas dinner if we got all the repairs for the day cleared out by 6 pm. At 5 pm the last vehicle out rolled back into the yard. A Chevy Luv came with a clutch slipping so bad it wouldn't hardly move to get it in the stall. That didn't just start slipping to where it would not hardly move at all on Christmas Eve, jerk! One mechanic jumped up in the cab and started taking out the floor mat and shifter while we hoisted him up in the air. One mechanic jumped on the driveshaft. One on the trans bolts. We had it back in its stall in 40-minutes. Amazing what can be done when your motivated.

If it is the pilot bearing seized to the input shaft. Applying the parking brake. Jacking up the rear end. Sticking the trans in gear. Pushing in on the clutch and starting the engine would spin the pilot bearing while holding the input shaft from moving. It might free it up? It might free up a stuck clutch disc too. I don't disagree with the stuck clutch disc causing the problem just giving you another option. Pilot bearings come in three versions, a brass bushing and a ball bearing and needle bearings. If its a brass bushing type it could have grease in there that got cooked and crusty and glued the bushing to the shaft. That you can break loose. If its steel roller bearing and its all rusted up and starting to grenade, that's not going to loosen up or at least not for very long.

If you ever take an ASE manual transmission certification test. One of the questions you would likely see is a pilot bearing grabbing the input shaft causing gear grinding. I sure wish everything that went wrong on an automobile could be like those tests and only A,B, C or D could be the problem.

I'm in Southern California so we don't have things rusting together too often. At least not from sitting for only six-months. Other parts of the country have automotive problems that we never see here.

Before you do anything check that clutch free-play. Using your fingers there should be about an inch of free play at the top of the pedal before you feel the throw-out bearing contact the clutch. You can grab the clutch fork and pull it back to check for play down at the bellhousing. You want just a little bit of play down there. We usually adjusted them that way before we let the vehicle down off the hoist. Instead of lowering it backdown, checking the pedal play and having to lift vehicle back up and readjust again. We did so many of the same types of vehicles you knew how much free play at the clutch fork would give you the correct pedal play.

If it has a little play and the clutch slips the disc worn too thin. No amount of adjusting is going to fix it. If it has a little play and the gear grinds going into first gear with the vehicle stopped, something is causing the input shaft to spin. If it goes into first okay at a stop but grinds shifting into higher gears then its usually a synchronizer problem.

I thought of something else. If the splines on the disc and input shaft rusted up or were full of dried up grease the disc may not be able to slide back away the flywheel. It is important if you do lube "lightly" lube clutch splines to use a synthetic disc brake caliper grease that is heat resistant and won't dry out. You want just a paper super thin coating so it does not get slung all over the place when its spinning. Some guys say not to tube the splines and some do? Its possible that the grease could eventually attract stuff and keep the disc from sliding too. I don't think I ever removed a factory clutch with grease on the clutch disc spline. I don't know what the real answer is? Where I worked they burned out clutches before they ever had a chance for the splines to stick. 10K miles was nearly a record. One guy could only get 2K miles out of a Chevy C50 truck clutch. Anywhere else and he would have been fired!

[mfirth]

Could be a failed pressure plate. I've seen the arms that engage the throwout bearing break off.

[Old Redneck]

This happen to me with my 39. So I started it up and let it run for a half hour or so. Then I push in the clutch to the floor and snap my foot of the peddle about a dozen times while the car is running. This worked for me. The heat off the engine dry up the moisture and snapping let the clutch and pressure work as it should. I tried putting the car in high gear and rocking it and that did not work.

[Mike51Merc]

Regarding disabling the ignition, I highly doubt that car is going to start after sitting a long time by bumping the starter in gear.

If you're worried about it taking off, hold the brake pedal when you bump the starter and/or open the garage door and put in in the appropriate gear so if it starts it drives out the door.

Jacking the wheels off the floor defeats the purpose. You're trying to force the clutch free from the flywheel. If the wheels spin in the air that will not happen.

Lastly, yes disassembly and inspection is the best way to diagnose and repair, but there's a better than fair chance that you have some flash rust on the clutch surfaces that has caused some sticking. Trust me, I've been there and fixed the problem in 2 minutes.

[Jengah]

Success!!! I got her into gear.

Before starting her up I popped the clutch about a dozen times then ran her through the gears for a couple minutes. Then, after idling for a couple minutes I slowly eased her into gear. I didn't get to run her on the road yet but did go back in forth in the driveway a few times.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[butchbov]

Amen

[hook00pad]

I'm glad you got it rolling. By the way, a leaking transmission seal can cause the disc to stick, by allowing transmission oil to reach the clutch disc. It happened on my NAA Ford tractor a while back.

Al Hook

[deuce_roadster]

When this has happened to me I have put the back of the car on 2 jack stands and started it up in gear, pushed in the clutch and then the brake and it has always come free. Never had this hurt the disk. It is usually just the slighted amount of rust which clears off. It doesn't take much to cause the disk to not disengage. Completely disengaged the pressure plate only clears the disk by something like .050.

[Mike51Merc]

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That's great news. Just for the record for any future readers, I forgot to mention an important part of my solution and that is to hold the clutch pedal down while bumping the starter. Like so:

1. Put it in gear.
2. Set parking brake
3. Hold clutch pedal down
4. Hit starter switch for a second
5. Repeat a few times.