The Ford Barn

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 07:05 AM

Ok, I have been reading a lot about wheel wobble, death shake, whatever you want to call it. I learned a lot from this forum just being new to Model A . So I was in our local Antique Car parade last Saturday ( Won the First place in my class) and during the parade, my "Wobble" became pretty violent around 15 to 20 miles an hour. I made it through and made it home with no issues. I decided to start investigating it thoroughly. Now I have been an automotive Tech and Owner of a shop for almost 40 years now and I wanted to get down to the basics. Here is the one mistake I made when I purchased this car. "I did not go through everything first"! I purchased this very nice car from a gentleman that took very good care of it but I now know it has not been serviced in a while. I did all the oil and coolant ( water), hoses, stuff like that but never really got into bearings, brakes, etc. I know better but that is what it is. So here is what I did to fix it.

1. Repacked all the bearings front and rear
2. Greased every grease fitting
3. New stainless lugs with stainless washers (From Snyder's)
4. Adjusted PSi down to 35 psi ( was at 41 psi)
5. Checked the toe settings
6. Made darn sure all front end parts were safe and in spec.
7. Installed a "quality" steering stabilizer ( from Snyders)

That's it. This car runs like a whole different car. I know I have read not to put a steering stabilizer on the car but I totally disagree with that. Most shows will not deduct points for "safety items" on the car. ( Shocks, seat belts, turn signals, stabilizer, etc). As a professional mechanic, I can tell you steering stabilizers help front end parts from wearing as much and makes the ride just a bit more enjoyable.
I love this Model A and I drive it more than any old car I have owned. I want it to be stable around our bumpy streets here in Ohio. The steering Stabilizer tucks nicely out of view and I would recommend painting the mounting brackets black. Again buy a quality one. Snyder's to me has the best one and the most expensive one. Cost means nothing to me when it comes to this car.
I understand it could mask a problem so to test that, unhook and drive it. Fix that issue and reinstall it. Maybe do this every 1000 miles and you'll be safe.
I really intend to keep this one for a long time, so I hope someone gets help from this post. Have a great weekend and keep driving.

Eric

WHN · 08-03-2018, 07:36 AM

Eric:

I know you are going to enjoy your car, they are really a lot of fun.

If you don’t mind, I would like to add something about shimmy or wheel wobble in Model A’s.

I have never owned a Model A that after going completely thru the running gear had a problem with shimmy/wobble.

Starting with the tires, wheels, shocks, springs, complete front end, steering box, if everything is correct you should be good to go.

I would be afraid that by using a stabilizer, someone, not knowing it, could be covering up the real problem.

By saying this, please don’t miss read me. Enjoy your car, and I am very happy for you that it is now driving properly.

I just feel the need to say that I do not personally believe a properly prepared car needs one.

Enjoy.

Bill

DHZIEMAN · 08-03-2018, 07:38 AM

First, I am happy, things you did helped the wobble! Next, I note no mention of steering gear box checks concerning wear! That is the hard one to deal with. If that was done as part of the Front end parts check, then that is good. The reasons most talk about the stabilizer as being not a preferred method by some is the belief that there is something not right with the front end steering for the car to need one! Any changes in results on your car would be also good to be shared!

Jacksonlll · 08-03-2018, 07:40 AM

Eric, good post. I sure hope you get a chance to drive that car around Holmes county. Our club has been going there every other year. Been there 10 times. Those roads are made for the A. Great people and food too. Jack

rocket1 · 08-03-2018, 07:46 AM

I believe the stabilizer just compensates for a front end problem or problems,I would find the root of the problem and make the necessary repairs,did not come from the factory with one.It is just my opinion.

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 08:39 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rocket1

I believe the stabilizer just compensates for a front end problem or problems,I would find the root of the problem and make the necessary repairs,did not come from the factory with one.It is just my opinion.

Great comments and thanks. First of all "Yes" the steering box was checked and is fine. Second, remember what I wrote.

"I understand it could mask a problem so to test that, unhook and drive it. Fix that issue and reinstall it. Maybe do this every 1000 miles and you'll be safe."

So with that said the stabilizer is protecting the front end because our roads are crap around here. I did drive it with it off and it drives good, I just want that extra stability to handle the bumps. Hope that makes sense.

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Eric, good post. I sure hope you get a chance to drive that car around Holmes county. Our club has been going there every other year. Been there 10 times. Those roads are made for the A. Great people and food too. Jack

Would love to do that, have to wait and see about trailering it up there.

1930artdeco · 08-03-2018, 09:43 AM

Eric, Maybe you did this but did you check the steering balls? That was the reason that my car did the death wobble at the same speed. I can see how the damper would aid in stability though. Does it aid in steering or hamper it? Or just smooth out any jerkiness?

Mike

Ernie Vitucci · 08-03-2018, 09:51 AM

I have been driving Model A Fords since 1963 and I will tell you that even with a perfectly rebuilt front end the steering stabilizer from Snyder's is very helpful. It actually got my wife back into our 31 Tudor...Ernie in Arizona

Anteek29 · 08-03-2018, 10:31 AM

Rebuilding my '29 steering box solved its death wobble.

Marshall V. Daut · 08-03-2018, 12:07 PM

Please take a photo of the front wishbone mounting clamshells underneath the bellhousing, and post it here. That may help solve - or at least lessen - the shimmying problem.
Marshall

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Eric, Maybe you did this but did you check the steering balls? That was the reason that my car did the death wobble at the same speed. I can see how the damper would aid in stability though. Does it aid in steering or hamper it? Or just smooth out any jerkiness?

Mike

Yes I should have stated that I check all the stuff that this forum talked about. All is in great shape. Yes the stabilizer takes that small "quiver" you get. I drove it 10 miles after doing all the work and to me "WOW" very smooth. I don't regret it.

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Please take a photo of the front wishbone mounting clamshells underneath the bellhousing, and post it here. That may help solve - or at least lessen - the shimmying problem.
Marshall

I can but that was the first thing I checked. I might add this car has under 3000 miles since a complete resto. It was done right. Kingpins were just a small play but greasing took 98% of that out. Again I drove the car without a stabilizer and after fixing what I said, it did not shimmy. The stabilizer was just my professional opinion and I like having it on the bumpy roads we have here. The only smooth roads we have are at McDonald's drive through.

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie Vitucci

I have been driving Model A Fords since 1963 and I will tell you that even with a perfectly rebuilt front end the steering stabilizer from Snyder's is very helpful. It actually got my wife back into our 31 Tudor...Ernie in Arizona

Exactly Ernie. They use them today on a lot of vehicles to aid in a better ride.

jwilliams81 · 08-03-2018, 12:34 PM

Eric,

That's great you got your new A fixed. I went through the whole front end over the winter and that made a big difference on the way she handles.

I'm in Cincinnati and daily drive mine to work everyday it doesn't rain. These cars are amazing. I'm not sure which club you are closer to, our club, or the Dayton club. But if you are not a member already join one of the clubs. Tons of knowledge and the people are always so nice and welcoming.
Our website and Facebook:
http://clubs.hemmings.com/ovr/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OVRMAC/

-Jarrod

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwilliams81

Eric,

That's great you got your new A fixed. I went through the whole front end over the winter and that made a big difference on the way she handles.

I'm in Cincinnati and daily drive mine to work everyday it doesn't rain. These cars are amazing. I'm not sure which club you are closer to, our club, or the Dayton club. But if you are not a member already join one of the clubs. Tons of knowledge and the people are always so nice and welcoming.
Our website and Facebook:
http://clubs.hemmings.com/ovr/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OVRMAC/

-Jarrod

I am in Hamilton and I am probably closer to Cincy. I’ll look it up thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 01:25 PM

I need to brag just a bit. This is my very first trophy with this car. I got first place in Model A 28-31 class Closed top. I was also the second choice for next years Lead parade car. Got beat by a 1941 Hollywood Grahmn which was beautiful. I don't normally care about trophies but I have to admit this one felt good.

barnstuf · 08-03-2018, 01:43 PM

Your #3 was you installed stainless lugs and washers from Snyders. I presume you mean you installed stainless lug NUTS plus washers. Washers under the lug nuts are NOT original. They were offered in recent years when the supply of good wheels was getting low and owners were using wheels with wallowed out lug nut holes. Then some folks thought they protect the paint around the lug nut. They are unnecessary for any reason. Upgrade the wheels if lug nut holes are wallowed out. I have personal knowledge of two accidents, one a head on collision with the Judge of the District Court by a friend in his Model A, caused by using these washers on bad wheels, which came off while driving. Good wheels do NOT need them.

ericsauto · 08-03-2018, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnstuf

Your #3 was you installed stainless lugs and washers from Snyders. I presume you mean you installed stainless lug NUTS plus washers. Washers under the lug nuts are NOT original. They were offered in recent years when the supply of good wheels was getting low and owners were using wheels with wallowed out lug nut holes. Then some folks thought they protect the paint around the lug nut. They are unnecessary for any reason. Upgrade the wheels if lug nut holes are wallowed out. I have personal knowledge of two accidents, one a head on collision with the Judge of the District Court by a friend in his Model A, caused by using these washers on bad wheels, which came off while driving. Good wheels do NOT need them.

That is good info. I will look into it. I have read that is the right thing to do but I will look into new wheels today. Thanks

WHN · 08-03-2018, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericsauto

That is good info. I will look into it. I have read that is the right thing to do but I will look into new wheels today. Thanks

Are you saying the washers caused the accidents or the bad wheels?

There are a lot of Model A’s running around using the lug nut washers and all are not because of bad wheels.

08-03-2018, 07:05 AM	#1
ericsauto Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Posts: 23	Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Ok, I have been reading a lot about wheel wobble, death shake, whatever you want to call it. I learned a lot from this forum just being new to Model A . So I was in our local Antique Car parade last Saturday ( Won the First place in my class) and during the parade, my "Wobble" became pretty violent around 15 to 20 miles an hour. I made it through and made it home with no issues. I decided to start investigating it thoroughly. Now I have been an automotive Tech and Owner of a shop for almost 40 years now and I wanted to get down to the basics. Here is the one mistake I made when I purchased this car. "I did not go through everything first"! I purchased this very nice car from a gentleman that took very good care of it but I now know it has not been serviced in a while. I did all the oil and coolant ( water), hoses, stuff like that but never really got into bearings, brakes, etc. I know better but that is what it is. So here is what I did to fix it. 1. Repacked all the bearings front and rear 2. Greased every grease fitting 3. New stainless lugs with stainless washers (From Snyder's) 4. Adjusted PSi down to 35 psi ( was at 41 psi) 5. Checked the toe settings 6. Made darn sure all front end parts were safe and in spec. 7. Installed a "quality" steering stabilizer ( from Snyders) That's it. This car runs like a whole different car. I know I have read not to put a steering stabilizer on the car but I totally disagree with that. Most shows will not deduct points for "safety items" on the car. ( Shocks, seat belts, turn signals, stabilizer, etc). As a professional mechanic, I can tell you steering stabilizers help front end parts from wearing as much and makes the ride just a bit more enjoyable. I love this Model A and I drive it more than any old car I have owned. I want it to be stable around our bumpy streets here in Ohio. The steering Stabilizer tucks nicely out of view and I would recommend painting the mounting brackets black. Again buy a quality one. Snyder's to me has the best one and the most expensive one. Cost means nothing to me when it comes to this car. I understand it could mask a problem so to test that, unhook and drive it. Fix that issue and reinstall it. Maybe do this every 1000 miles and you'll be safe. I really intend to keep this one for a long time, so I hope someone gets help from this post. Have a great weekend and keep driving. Eric

08-03-2018, 07:36 AM	#2
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,821	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Eric: I know you are going to enjoy your car, they are really a lot of fun. If you don’t mind, I would like to add something about shimmy or wheel wobble in Model A’s. I have never owned a Model A that after going completely thru the running gear had a problem with shimmy/wobble. Starting with the tires, wheels, shocks, springs, complete front end, steering box, if everything is correct you should be good to go. I would be afraid that by using a stabilizer, someone, not knowing it, could be covering up the real problem. By saying this, please don’t miss read me. Enjoy your car, and I am very happy for you that it is now driving properly. I just feel the need to say that I do not personally believe a properly prepared car needs one. Enjoy. Bill Last edited by WHN; 08-03-2018 at 07:42 AM.

08-03-2018, 07:40 AM	#4
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Eric, good post. I sure hope you get a chance to drive that car around Holmes county. Our club has been going there every other year. Been there 10 times. Those roads are made for the A. Great people and food too. Jack

08-03-2018, 07:46 AM	#5
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix I believe the stabilizer just compensates for a front end problem or problems,I would find the root of the problem and make the necessary repairs,did not come from the factory with one.It is just my opinion.

08-03-2018, 09:43 AM	#8
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Eric, Maybe you did this but did you check the steering balls? That was the reason that my car did the death wobble at the same speed. I can see how the damper would aid in stability though. Does it aid in steering or hamper it? Or just smooth out any jerkiness? Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

08-03-2018, 07:38 AM	#3
DHZIEMAN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Sunrise Beach, Mo Posts: 439	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix First, I am happy, things you did helped the wobble! Next, I note no mention of steering gear box checks concerning wear! That is the hard one to deal with. If that was done as part of the Front end parts check, then that is good. The reasons most talk about the stabilizer as being not a preferred method by some is the belief that there is something not right with the front end steering for the car to need one! Any changes in results on your car would be also good to be shared!

08-03-2018, 09:51 AM	#9
Ernie Vitucci Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 611	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix I have been driving Model A Fords since 1963 and I will tell you that even with a perfectly rebuilt front end the steering stabilizer from Snyder's is very helpful. It actually got my wife back into our 31 Tudor...Ernie in Arizona

08-03-2018, 10:31 AM	#10
Anteek29 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Santa Maria, CA Posts: 985	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Rebuilding my '29 steering box solved its death wobble. __________________ Alan 1929 Special Coupe 1941 Pick-Up 1955 Victoria

08-03-2018, 12:07 PM	#11
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Please take a photo of the front wishbone mounting clamshells underneath the bellhousing, and post it here. That may help solve - or at least lessen - the shimmying problem. Marshall

08-03-2018, 12:34 PM	#15
jwilliams81 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Cincinnati OH Posts: 418	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Eric, That's great you got your new A fixed. I went through the whole front end over the winter and that made a big difference on the way she handles. I'm in Cincinnati and daily drive mine to work everyday it doesn't rain. These cars are amazing. I'm not sure which club you are closer to, our club, or the Dayton club. But if you are not a member already join one of the clubs. Tons of knowledge and the people are always so nice and welcoming. Our website and Facebook: http://clubs.hemmings.com/ovr/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/OVRMAC/ -Jarrod __________________ 1931 Murray Town Sedan. Black body with Apple Green pin stripe. 1923 Model T Touring with electric start. Low radiator Cincinnati, Ohio

08-03-2018, 01:25 PM	#17
ericsauto Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Hamilton, Ohio Posts: 23	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix I need to brag just a bit. This is my very first trophy with this car. I got first place in Model A 28-31 class Closed top. I was also the second choice for next years Lead parade car. Got beat by a 1941 Hollywood Grahmn which was beautiful. I don't normally care about trophies but I have to admit this one felt good. Last edited by ericsauto; 08-03-2018 at 01:37 PM.

08-03-2018, 01:43 PM	#18
barnstuf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 2,840	Re: Bad Wheel Wooble and fix Your #3 was you installed stainless lugs and washers from Snyders. I presume you mean you installed stainless lug NUTS plus washers. Washers under the lug nuts are NOT original. They were offered in recent years when the supply of good wheels was getting low and owners were using wheels with wallowed out lug nut holes. Then some folks thought they protect the paint around the lug nut. They are unnecessary for any reason. Upgrade the wheels if lug nut holes are wallowed out. I have personal knowledge of two accidents, one a head on collision with the Judge of the District Court by a friend in his Model A, caused by using these washers on bad wheels, which came off while driving. Good wheels do NOT need them.