Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2019, 09:23 PM   #1
37 Coupe
Senior Member
 
37 Coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,541
Default What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

If a seller did not know what he had or in a case I saw an estate auctioneer? What would be a quick dead give away? Gas tank? Do they use a different tank or you have to use an original? I don't think they sell any gas tanks as parts . Just something I was thinking about as I do know a local '31 roadster for sale and it is what is going to be seen more frequently an inheritance and a person who knows nothing about the cars restoration. I have posted about two others last spring that were local cars and I was told they were both Brookville roadsters on sedan chassis. At the time I never thought to ask or look at what would be different. They were both beautifull cars that sold very well.
__________________
"Never complain,never explain"... Henry Ford II
37 Coupe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 02:42 AM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,890
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Spot welds instead of rivets, and the shape of the firewall around the engine area are the two biggest areas. The Brookville Roadster uses the original fuel tank.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-10-2019, 02:51 PM   #3
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,271
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

The 28-29 seat supports are made by Brookville as "two intersecting circles." The original were punched as an "oval." It of course would take someone with a file/die grinder about a minute to remove the unpunched part - before the body is assembled.

After assembly - much more difficult and difficult to do without leaving evidence.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 03:27 PM   #4
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,890
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe K View Post
The 28-29 seat supports are made by Brookville as "two intersecting circles." The original were punched as an "oval." It of course would take someone with a file/die grinder about a minute to remove the unpunched part - before the body is assembled.

After assembly - much more difficult and difficult to do without leaving evidence.

Joe K
Are/Were they installing 28/29 seat risers in a 1931 Roadster??
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 04:38 PM   #5
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,271
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Are/Were they installing 28/29 seat risers in a 1931 Roadster??
I brought this up as I'll bet dollar to donuts they do the same constructive idiosyncrasy on the 30-31s.

I asked the body vendor why Brookville didn't make the extra step and make the circles into ovals - since this is best done before assembly. His thought?

"They have to have some way to make their bodies distinct from originals" - a valid point, although as some have said, there are other differences.

At least with the ovals/round, one doesn't have to be any sort of expert.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 07:59 PM   #6
Jeff/Illinois
Senior Member
 
Jeff/Illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,925
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

In the petroliana hobby, reproduction or 'new' mfg. gas pump globes are supposed to be marked at the bottom of the globe face or lens by law, either dated or marked 'licensed product' or 'reproduction'.

A number of the more rare globes are flooding into the country today, newly made, from China and they have even fooled the experts on occasion, the novice quite often. They are doing the same with all sorts of rare American coins and especially the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. You gots -ta be super super careful they are getting harder to spot, and the fakes get better every year. Gold coins? Forget it lots of fakes out there.

Maybe they need to badge the Brookville Roadster in a similar fashion somehow as people are going to be fooled.
Jeff/Illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 07:27 AM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,890
Thumbs up Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois View Post
In the petroliana hobby, reproduction or 'new' mfg. gas pump globes are supposed to be marked at the bottom of the globe face or lens by law, either dated or marked 'licensed product' or 'reproduction'.

A number of the more rare globes are flooding into the country today, newly made, from China and they have even fooled the experts on occasion, the novice quite often. They are doing the same with all sorts of rare American coins and especially the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. You gots -ta be super super careful they are getting harder to spot, and the fakes get better every year. Gold coins? Forget it lots of fakes out there.

Maybe they need to badge the Brookville Roadster in a similar fashion somehow as people are going to be fooled.
Jeff, I am going a different way on that mindset. Any reproduction part is accepted in Fine-point judging without any point deduction providing it is indistinguishable from an original component. It is up to the Adjudicator to know the difference between the two items before a deduction is given. I say the same thing should apply between an original and reproduction body.

To take a few comments in this thread a tad further, the original question is how do you tell the difference between original and repro. It was mentioned Seat Riser and pans are different. While that is a very true statement, I will say that the majority of original Roadsters that I have seen restored have repro floor pans and seat risers installed. If we went by Joe's telltale of incorrectly shaped seat risers, I would expect many original Roadsters would be incorrectly identified as a Brookville body.

To confuse the masses, several years ago we actually had Brookville build our customer a Roadster using an indented Firewall that we had restored and sent them. I also had Brookville leave the floor pans out. We drilled holes in all the spotwelds and either installed rivets we bucked & waffled, or added weld and cammoflauged the ends to look like a factory rivet. We reshaped the pans and the doors in a Pullmax, and to my knowledge, no one to this day has ever questioned if that body was anything other than super nice original sheetmetal.

We have also reworked reproduction fenders and body aprons where they looked just like original sheetmetal. Others have done the same thing, so if it will pass the muster in Fine-point adjudication, then it should be acceptable including in the sale of the vehicle providing the Seller does not use deceit in the sale.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 08:41 AM   #8
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 2,943
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Since the Brookville bodies are that close to original, what difference does it make which one you have? Most people own an A for its appearance and the driving experience. If it looks and performs as original, does it really matter if the body panels were stamped in 1930, or in 1980, or in 2019? Does it matter if the crankshaft was made by Ford, or made by Burlington? Or if the upholstery was stitched in 1931 or in 2018? A quality reproduction body seems to be a better choice than an original rusted out one that's full of welded-in reproduction patch panels. Really, that patched body is not original either!
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:01 AM   #9
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,271
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Since the Brookville bodies are that close to original, what difference does it make which one you have?
To some being able to say "original" is worth the price of admission.

To others being able to say "can you tell the difference?" (throwing a gauntlet) is worth their price.

To others - "don't you like the ride and there are no body squeaks" floats their boat.

Nobody can fault anyone else.

Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:49 AM   #10
Smog Tech
Senior Member
 
Smog Tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arcadia, CA
Posts: 134
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

The best thing about Brockville bodies is that you can build a hot rod without destroying an original car.
Smog Tech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 10:46 AM   #11
Nosetime
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Huntington Beach, Calif
Posts: 196
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

@smogtech, or resurrect an old chassis and running gear from a hotrodder who just used the original body! I did exactly that.
Nosetime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:29 PM   #12
Jeff/Illinois
Senior Member
 
Jeff/Illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,925
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smog Tech View Post
The best thing about Brockville bodies is that you can build a hot rod without destroying an original car.
True.. And good points all plus as Nosetime says, another Model A is able to hit the road.

Brent I recall that Roadster you are talking about, the one your shop did, and it was spot-on, a beautiful car. I've been around Model A Fords since '71, and I didn't spot the difference until someone told me what the car was.

I was VERY impressed to say the least it turned out beautifully
Jeff/Illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 04:26 PM   #13
ericr
Senior Member
 
ericr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,284
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

what parts are you guys saying are "circles" or "ovals"?
ericr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:07 PM   #14
Joe K
Senior Member
 
Joe K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 3,271
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericr View Post
what parts are you guys saying are "circles" or "ovals"?
Seat frame. At the juncture between the seat back and the seat bottom.

Below the repop seat frame for the 28-29 RPU. These holes they have "slotted" to make the oval. The Ebay seller is in Greenville Ohio, so probably associated with Brookville.



Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse.
Joe K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:42 PM   #15
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 13,964
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Since the Brookville bodies are that close to original, what difference does it make which one you have? Most people own an A for its appearance and the driving experience. If it looks and performs as original, does it really matter if the body panels were stamped in 1930, or in 1980, or in 2019? Does it matter if the crankshaft was made by Ford, or made by Burlington? Or if the upholstery was stitched in 1931 or in 2018? A quality reproduction body seems to be a better choice than an original rusted out one that's full of welded-in reproduction patch panels. Really, that patched body is not original either!

The Brookville body costs about $7000.00 So I would say that cost would be the difference between original and Brookville.
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 01:19 PM   #16
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,890
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Since the Brookville bodies are that close to original, what difference does it make which one you have? Most people own an A for its appearance and the driving experience. If it looks and performs as original, does it really matter if the body panels were stamped in 1930, or in 1980, or in 2019? Does it matter if the crankshaft was made by Ford, or made by Burlington? Or if the upholstery was stitched in 1931 or in 2018? A quality reproduction body seems to be a better choice than an original rusted out one that's full of welded-in reproduction patch panels. Really, that patched body is not original either!

I also suppose that it depends on who installed the panels! Some craftsmen fabricate and install 'repair panels' while others install 'patch panels'. The name generally says it all!!




.
.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 01:38 PM   #17
37 Coupe
Senior Member
 
37 Coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,541
Default Re: What would identify a Brookville 1931 Roadster Body

I have a friend here in Ohio that bought a 32 Ford 3 window coupe about 10 years ago .The car was solid but stored since the fifties and for some odd reason someone in its past started to cut on the roof not som much to chop but too make a roadster out of it or something,luckily they quit before they got to the doors. He took the car to Brookville as they make a 3 window and repair panels and they did all the work.He actually had to pay for complete side panels to get the part that the car needed done but he took it to the right place.It is excellent looking and black so nothing is evident that normally would show. This guy is so lucky he also got a set of NOS disc brakes with another deal years ago and put them on this car.Kinmonts.
__________________
"Never complain,never explain"... Henry Ford II
37 Coupe is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 PM.