Changing of the Guard

[McMimmcs]

Originally Posted by Mike Peters

Looking at it this way, let's say that there may me less than 500,000 Model A's left on the planet. World population is about 7 billion potential model A owners. Out of all those people, we only need half million or so to take care of our babies. That makes pretty good odds that there will be enough people with interest in these cars to keep them going indefinitely. Just sayin'

I always like your opinions and read em all.

I’ve seen that 500,000 figure before. I personally will be damned surprised if there is 100,000 road worthy.

[redmodelt]

Over the years of reading these kinds of posts, one thing that has kinda stands out; the divide between the ones who shared the car with the family and ones where it was "DADs car" and no one is allowed to touch it and what happens to them later. Not talking about ones that got them later in life or had one before the kids were old enough to know anything and was sold, but the ones that got the family involved while owning it seem to be the ones that might have someone to carry on its ownership in the family.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

There is a viewpoint that I disagree with, and that is about the number of restorations in the future. The cost of a body-off-frame complete restoration is too costly today, and it will get more costly. So I predict there will be:

• More older restorations being used as-is;
  
  
• More barn finds on the road with their barn patina;
  
  
• Sadly, I see restorer's cutting corners on mechanicals to make a pretty paint job and accessories within a budget. I hope I am wrong on this point.

Bob, what you speak of has some merit however allow me to add some perspective from my side of the fence.

1) The cost of restoration work is very expensive however every restoration shop you speak with is beyond covered up. When you look at the invoice numbers of orders coming from the major vendors, they are busy selling parts. Look at the social media for sale sites, and good merchandise does not last long. While it may seem expensive to some, ...others are spending money on their Model-As!!

2) Using Model-As 'as-is' has been going on for nearly a decade now. What I am seeing is hobbyists purchased a poorly restored Model-A for cheap money which enabled them to get into the hobby, however the "using as-is" portion is about 'used-up'. Most of these cars need a complete mechanical restoration and as you say, the owner does not have the money nor the skill to pull this off.

3) Most barn-finds today are vehicles that were abandoned in the owner's garage because the vehicle was unreliable. These vehicles get purchased as a new toy for someone, and as soon as the 'newness' wears off, it is passed-off as a new barnfind.

4) Restorers HAVE been cutting corners for years. That is the problem why the hobby is in the shape it is. National club members seem to be the worst from my vantage point. There is not a valid reason why someone should be using an alternator instead of a generator other than someone is looking to cut a corner. Reproduction parts replacement in lieu of restoring/repairing an original part is cutting a corner. I could go on, but I get so tired of fielding phone calls of someone telling me they only want a driver. Henry Ford's employees never built a Show Car that was sold to the masses. They built Drivers. If we restore to what they built, it IS a Driver.


My prediction is social media is further hurting the national club's existence where it will soon be extinct in one more generation or so. To begin with, about 80% of the advice you read/watch on the social media pages regarding a Model-A is false. Then convincing someone to actually spend money joining the national club, -or for them paying for their requested information (RG&JS, Paint & Refinish, tech books, etc.) ain't happening. The level of expectation from new(er) hobbyists today is unreal.

Ironically, the Model-T hobby in which I participate in does not seem to suffer from this. Brass-era ownership doesn't seem to be either.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mike Peters

Looking at it this way, let's say that there may me less than 500,000 Model A's left on the planet. World population is about 7 billion potential model A owners. Out of all those people, we only need half million or so to take care of our babies. That makes pretty good odds that there will be enough people with interest in these cars to keep them going indefinitely. Just sayin'

Mike you are very correct. I know you guys have heard me say this before, but when I was about 6 years old, my father and some other men founded the Houston TX Model-A club. I was 'all-in' on working with my dad in the garage on Model-As. When I was 9 or 10 y.o., a man at the club meeting made the comment to the members that greatly upset me. He said "Boys, we better enjoy these cars now as no one will want these cars when we are gone." I remember that conversation between Dad & I driving home from the club meeting some 50 years ago just like it was yesterday. I was panicked. Dad told me to just watch & see. Sure enough, as some of those old codgers aged-out, there was always someone to buy their Model-A. Been that way for the 50+ years now! Ironically, Model-As have always brought more money than what they did the decade before too. Restorations have cost more to do each subsequent decade too, ...and yet people have always managed to find a way to get them restored.

[700rpm]

"There is not a valid reason why someone should be using an alternator instead of a generator other than someone is looking to cut a corner. Reproduction parts replacement in lieu of restoring/repairing an original part is cutting a corner. "

This is an issue that I can fully concur with. The definition of restoration has in many ways devolved away from preservation. I have always regarded ownership of my A’s as an enjoyable responsibilty to preserve a piece of automotive history, restoring and using original parts as much as possible, while still making some exceptions for safety (seat belts, safety glass, turn signals, RH Tail lights). The goal for me is to restore, preserve, and safely drive my Model A’s so future generations have a fair idea of their history. I also don’t want some like-minded future owner of my cars to ask, "Why the hell did he do that!??"

[Slowmotoring]

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Originally Posted by Stingray70

I suppose I am one of the "new guard". I will say that one of the main reasons my wife and I chose to buy a Model A was because of the tremendous knowledge and support out there for these cars. I have spent scores of hours reading everything I can on this forum and others trying to learn as much as possible. Someday I hope to have a sliver of the wisdom that many of you do so that I may pass it along. The cars deserve it and so do the present generation of stewards. And definitely thank you for the patience!!

I also fall into this category. Being “younger” (34) and having a young family, it was a no brainer to get a model a for our first classic. My son and I actually spent some time in the garage today installing side mirrors and a new gas gauge float. We got the 29 tudor last fall just before snow, so we are definitely getting antsy for warmer weather!

[Mulletwagon]

This issue comes up frequently. I suspect Model As will still be running long after the Starship Enterprise is mothballed. While our rides remain constant, the human species continues to evolve. Most kids no longer work on cars, fly .049 airplanes, or build forts. They seem to be gravitating to I Pods, computer games, and skateboards. Still, there are some youngsters who will take a dedicated interest in the old Henrys. The number of As out there is slowly decreasing due to neglect, mechanical decline, and street rod conversions (Oh the humanity !). Clubs will contribute to longevity, but many clubs are also in decline. The average age of our club membership is about 75 with the youngest about mid 50s. Despite it all, the As will continue due to their unique place in history and our desire to at least artifically live the way it was. I would not worry about the final demise of the Model A until horses dissappear forever.

[ronn]

I also agree with Bob, but will take it a step further.
As kids inherit their parents cars I see two things happening, those interested in continuing on their parents tradition- for sentimentality and those that will rod or sell their parents cars.
so if we say 50% will keep the cars as is, the other 50% will either sell off the cars, for lack of knowledge or interest, or will rod the cars with larger motors.
If you dont believe me, look at the listings on ebay for example. Also look at the big sellers like Gateway who see more dollar signs in rods then original.
Finally, Hemmings motor news has brought in rods for awhile now, realizing that they would be out of business if dealing with just stock cars.
Brent you are in a very specialized business, and for that I am sure you will always have customers, staying just as you are.

[Oldbluoval]

Ecclesiastes 3:1
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens:

Not necessarily waxing theological...well maybe I am! Nothing is different, is just a matter of when all fades. Enjoy it while you’ve got it!

[dr.j]

So Pam and I were doing some Estate planning and I questioned which of my children would like what car; the 28 Tudor or the 65 Healey ? The answer from both was simple; neither car however had we kept the 78 Z28 now that would be adifferent story. Honesty sometimes is not easy to accept but it sure make the planning simple.

[jb-ob]

Question, Why do you think the future will in any way resemble your 'past' ?

Lucky you if you have a young sprout interested in having you as his antique automobile mentor. Majority of kids are only interested in their thumbs on an i-phone.

What do the current car manufacturers all scrambling to offer electric cars know that we don't. Notice that the very first thing our new government did was shut down two major oil pipe line suppliers. How do you get the population into electric cars ?? Make gasoline too expensive to use.

Eventually the Grandkids will wonder if they can't afford the gas for Grandpa's old Ford, 'Why are we storing that monument in the garage ?'

We are very likely the last to enjoy these cars.

[rocket1]

Originally Posted by Ayers1

My Dad has a 28 Fordor that he bought when I was a year old. 58 years later I know that one day I'll inherit it but I wonder what will happen with it when I will eventually pass it down. None of my daughters have had the love or interest that I do for the A. Hopefully it and my 30 Tudor will get passed down and kept in the family.

Possibly one of your son in laws would be interested in the car,great family fun.

[skeazle]

I have a '30 Tudor which is in good shape. Restored in '09 and I have not done too much to it besides regular oil change, lube etc. I have only 5,000 mi. on it since I got it but now I fear things are going to start happening one of these days that I won't know how to fix. It has modern points and I oil the distributor but that is about it. The thing I need help with is my brakes. I have adjusted them enough with the wrench but it is at the end of the adjustment with that but I know there has to be plenty of brake pad left so I assume I have to get more out of adjusting the rods? I don't know how to do that. So There doesn't seem to be anyone around to help me out. I'm 69 yrs. old and I want to keep my Model A but I don't want to drive it without proper brake adjustment. I can learn the mechanics of what makes the Model A tick but I have to be shown and have things explained or I can't get it. So as the older guys become few and far between I don't know what I'll do. I think I speak for many that would like to get in to this hobby but it might seem like Greek to them. After I am shown the ropes It does seem easy but if I try tinkering with something the wrong way it will end up being worse than what is was before I started. Just saying anyone who has knowledge of all this always explain it well to someone who has no idea. Just don't assume. Thanks, Jim

[700rpm]

Skeazle==Don’t mess with the rods. That isn’t where either the problem or the solution lie. You’re likely to just make trouble for yourself. Get a copy of Les Andrews’ red book. Good instructions step by step on working on all aspects of an A.
Available on the MAFCA web site: https://www.mafca.com/books/lesbook.jpg

[Jack Shaft]

I love these threads,all kind of teeth knashing about a future you can't change..

[skeazle]

Thanks Ray. I'll check it out.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by skeazle

I have a '30 Tudor which is in good shape. Restored in '09 and I have not done too much to it besides regular oil change, lube etc. I have only 5,000 mi. on it since I got it but now I fear things are going to start happening one of these days that I won't know how to fix. It has modern points and I oil the distributor but that is about it. The thing I need help with is my brakes. I have adjusted them enough with the wrench but it is at the end of the adjustment with that but I know there has to be plenty of brake pad left so I assume I have to get more out of adjusting the rods? I don't know how to do that. So There doesn't seem to be anyone around to help me out. I'm 69 yrs. old and I want to keep my Model A but I don't want to drive it without proper brake adjustment. I can learn the mechanics of what makes the Model A tick but I have to be shown and have things explained or I can't get it. So as the older guys become few and far between I don't know what I'll do. I think I speak for many that would like to get in to this hobby but it might seem like Greek to them. After I am shown the ropes It does seem easy but if I try tinkering with something the wrong way it will end up being worse than what is was before I started. Just saying anyone who has knowledge of all this always explain it well to someone who has no idea. Just don't assume. Thanks, Jim

Pollock Auto Restoration, I think there in Pottstown, PA. They should be able to help with any repairs that you can’t do.

Back in the day. Everyday maintenance could be easily done by an owner, just like today, but there were still dealer service and repair shops for the other things.

All four wheels off the ground, than our cars have always gone to repair shop. Yes, more money. But. Done right and not tide up for months.

Enjoy.

[skeazle]

Thanks WHN.

[Gene F]

I bought my A when I was 34. in 1994. For a long time I was by far the youngest guy in my local chapter.

[SteveB31]

As a guy who has retailed Model A parts for almost 40 years, I can tell you that this has been happening for 40 years (or more). Most Model A’s are passed down, and of course many are sold when the owner passes away. Here is what I have seen in the last few years. Most, not all, of these kids that inherit these cars, are simply fascinated by how simple they are, and amazed that they run without any computers. These kids , for the most part, are eager to learn, buy all the books available, and ask a lot of good questions. Most are able and not afraid to spend the money needed to fix them well, and really enjoy the cars.

Steve @Bert’s Model A Center