The Ford Barn

Bruce Lancaster · 08-22-2012, 12:56 PM

Ford did add in another grade when Lincoln went to a hypoid axle. I happen to have a '46 service manual here: Regular Ford, "Mild EP gear oil to level of plug", 90 winter, 140 summer
Lincoln, hypoid gear oil, 90 EP, 80 when below 10 degrees.

Old Henry · 08-22-2012, 11:51 PM

Here's the lubrications chart for my '47 that says use 2 1/2 pints of S.A.E. 90 in the winter and S.A.E. 140 in the summer. That's what I do.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-23-2012, 08:35 AM

A note on all this...READ the blasted owner's manual before messing with stuff! Lots of information on this and other things, and if you don't have one repros are cheap.
By the way, using 600 is a widespread mistake, and can you show me ANY Ford manual calling for 600 even on A's? They call just for something like "good quality gear oil", and the EP stuff had not appeared yet...

phartman · 08-23-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

A note on all this...READ the blasted owner's manual before messing with stuff! Lots of information on this and other things, and if you don't have one repros are cheap.
By the way, using 600 is a widespread mistake, and can you show me ANY Ford manual calling for 600 even on A's? They call just for something like "good quality gear oil", and the EP stuff had not appeared yet...

My use of the 600 stuff, in retrospect, is a little puzzling. I used it because that's what an "expert" told me he used. But when I now go to research what it is, and what properties the 600 has, I am coming up short. Funny how this folklore about early Fords gets started.

Yup, go back and read the manuals. Excellent advice, duly noted.

Straightpipes · 08-23-2012, 05:30 PM

Well, Bruce, Looking thru books. I'm back to Fordson tractor manual 1923 calling for 600W in the rear/tranny.
Amusing that so many Ford guys rush to use MACs oil. Nothing wriong with it, mind you, as I myself used it for years. Only last year did I realize the I didn't need it. Thanks to the guys on the HAMB.
Come on over and visit at Hershey this year..

31chevy · 08-24-2012, 08:11 AM

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I guess I opened a can of worms about the 600# Here is what it says in the 1931 publication of my chevy book.(A grease of the consistency of 600W should be used or a transmission oil which is sold by oil companies for that purpose.) & (The rear axle should be filled with oil the same consistency as used in the transmission). I will probably be using a more modern lubricant when it becomes time to change fluids. Please note that it says or.
Gary.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-24-2012, 09:48 AM

The change to EP and then on to the modern viscosities of that came along as Detroit switched to spiral gears from the spur gears of the Model T period...Ford went to spiral cut rear in '28, trans gears in '32, but I think '32 was the first Ford manual calling for EP.
Probably it took a lot of worn gears before the industry developed the special stuff... I wonder if all those TT worm gear rears would have held up better.
The EP qualities had to be jacked up again for hypoid rears as they had even more sliding contact than on-center spirals. At Ford, that meant Lincoln first.

phartman · 08-25-2012, 05:49 AM

Come to find out that when my tranny was rebuilt, the mechanic used 600wt in that too.

Any idea what the lube capacity is of a 3 speed 1948 toploader?

I'll be under the front of the truck changing that sometime this weekend. How many quarts do I need to get at the autoparts store???

I'm coming up with 2.75 quarts. Correct???

Bassman/NZ · 08-25-2012, 06:49 AM

600 is NOT 600wt. It's probably around 220wt or so. The 600 is not a weight designation, in fact no-one seems to know where the 600 designation came from. I've been told it was steam-cylinder oil, but I have no idea if that's correct.

phartman · 08-26-2012, 06:32 PM

Changed the trans and differential fluids to 85/140 wt. Got everything buttoned up. No leaks. Truck runs noticably quieter, much less gear noise, much easier to shift.

Thanks, fellas. You did good.

Much appreciated.

Step-down · 08-26-2012, 06:59 PM

columbia rear axles are very spec. the weight to use...correct .... With a Columbia two speed added you use the plug on the Columbia correct different high .....

mick in saratoga · 11-24-2014, 06:37 PM

I was about to fill the transmission of my '40 with Valvoline 85-140W gear oil when I read the label, so I called the Valvoline Tech hotline. That product is not recommended for the transmission because of the damage it will do to brass/copper.

Krylon32 · 11-24-2014, 07:28 PM

In the banjos or quick changes in our shop we use Winters Moly 80-90-140. Seems to work good with no problems.

Drbrown · 11-25-2014, 02:38 AM

I use GL4 85W-140W from Napa in all except I use straight 140W in my BW OD (as recommended by former BW mechanic). And yes, beware over-filling the diff.

08-22-2012, 12:56 PM	#21
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Banjo rear lube level Ford did add in another grade when Lincoln went to a hypoid axle. I happen to have a '46 service manual here: Regular Ford, "Mild EP gear oil to level of plug", 90 winter, 140 summer Lincoln, hypoid gear oil, 90 EP, 80 when below 10 degrees.

08-22-2012, 11:51 PM	#22
Old Henry Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 5,762	Re: Banjo rear lube level Here's the lubrications chart for my '47 that says use 2 1/2 pints of S.A.E. 90 in the winter and S.A.E. 140 in the summer. That's what I do. __________________ Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness

08-23-2012, 08:35 AM	#23
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Banjo rear lube level A note on all this...READ the blasted owner's manual before messing with stuff! Lots of information on this and other things, and if you don't have one repros are cheap. By the way, using 600 is a widespread mistake, and can you show me ANY Ford manual calling for 600 even on A's? They call just for something like "good quality gear oil", and the EP stuff had not appeared yet...

08-23-2012, 05:30 PM	#25
Straightpipes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ballston Spa, NY Posts: 789	Re: Banjo rear lube level Well, Bruce, Looking thru books. I'm back to Fordson tractor manual 1923 calling for 600W in the rear/tranny. Amusing that so many Ford guys rush to use MACs oil. Nothing wriong with it, mind you, as I myself used it for years. Only last year did I realize the I didn't need it. Thanks to the guys on the HAMB. Come on over and visit at Hershey this year..

08-24-2012, 08:11 AM	#26
31chevy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lake City Mi. Posts: 807	Re: Banjo rear lube level Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I guess I opened a can of worms about the 600# Here is what it says in the 1931 publication of my chevy book.(A grease of the consistency of 600W should be used or a transmission oil which is sold by oil companies for that purpose.) & (The rear axle should be filled with oil the same consistency as used in the transmission). I will probably be using a more modern lubricant when it becomes time to change fluids. Please note that it says or. Gary.

08-24-2012, 09:48 AM	#27
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Banjo rear lube level The change to EP and then on to the modern viscosities of that came along as Detroit switched to spiral gears from the spur gears of the Model T period...Ford went to spiral cut rear in '28, trans gears in '32, but I think '32 was the first Ford manual calling for EP. Probably it took a lot of worn gears before the industry developed the special stuff... I wonder if all those TT worm gear rears would have held up better. The EP qualities had to be jacked up again for hypoid rears as they had even more sliding contact than on-center spirals. At Ford, that meant Lincoln first.

08-25-2012, 05:49 AM	#28
phartman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 339	Re: Banjo rear lube level Come to find out that when my tranny was rebuilt, the mechanic used 600wt in that too. Any idea what the lube capacity is of a 3 speed 1948 toploader? I'll be under the front of the truck changing that sometime this weekend. How many quarts do I need to get at the autoparts store??? I'm coming up with 2.75 quarts. Correct??? Last edited by phartman; 08-25-2012 at 06:07 AM.

08-25-2012, 06:49 AM	#29
Bassman/NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napier, New Zealand Posts: 2,001	Re: Banjo rear lube level 600 is NOT 600wt. It's probably around 220wt or so. The 600 is not a weight designation, in fact no-one seems to know where the 600 designation came from. I've been told it was steam-cylinder oil, but I have no idea if that's correct.

08-26-2012, 06:32 PM	#30
phartman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 339	Re: Banjo rear lube level Changed the trans and differential fluids to 85/140 wt. Got everything buttoned up. No leaks. Truck runs noticably quieter, much less gear noise, much easier to shift. Thanks, fellas. You did good. Much appreciated.

08-26-2012, 06:59 PM	#31
Step-down Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Hat City (Danbury CT) Posts: 647	Re: Banjo rear lube level columbia rear axles are very spec. the weight to use...correct .... With a Columbia two speed added you use the plug on the Columbia correct different high .....

11-24-2014, 06:37 PM	#32
mick in saratoga Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Clifton Park (Saratoga Co.) NY Posts: 3	Re: Banjo rear lube level I was about to fill the transmission of my '40 with Valvoline 85-140W gear oil when I read the label, so I called the Valvoline Tech hotline. That product is not recommended for the transmission because of the damage it will do to brass/copper.

11-24-2014, 07:28 PM	#33
Krylon32 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,482	Re: Banjo rear lube level In the banjos or quick changes in our shop we use Winters Moly 80-90-140. Seems to work good with no problems.

11-25-2014, 02:38 AM	#34
Drbrown Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Glens Falls NY Posts: 1,267	Re: Banjo rear lube level I use GL4 85W-140W from Napa in all except I use straight 140W in my BW OD (as recommended by former BW mechanic). And yes, beware over-filling the diff.