Head Gasket Confusion

[barkleydave]

I just ordered at HI-COMP 5.5:1 Head for my 29 CCPU. I ordered from Snyder's and the recommended head gasket was the B-6051-M Premium Head Gasket, so that is what I ordered.

Now someone else said the best gasket is the Grey Composite Head Gasket?

Is this another one of this 50 Percent on one and 50 Percent on the other opinion crap?

Thoughts?

[Glen in Hillman MI]

I use # B-6051-C Grapite. The best and lowest price.

[1931 flamingo]

Do a search, some like the silicone gasket and others have had bad luck. The copper or graphite (BEST) most likely better. JMO
Paul in CT

[V4F]

graphite & copper coat both sides is what I was told

[Jacksonlll]

Whatever you use, be sure to torque it and re-torque it every week for a while. Things will relax and cause you trouble.

[Y-Blockhead]

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What Jack said...

[RawhideKid]

Originally Posted by barkleydave

i just ordered at hi-comp 5.5:1 head for my 29 ccpu. I ordered from snyder's and the recommended head gasket was the b-6051-m premium head gasket, so that is what i ordered.

Now someone else said the best gasket is the grey composite head gasket?

is this another one of this 50 percent on one and 50 percent on the other opinion crap?

thoughts?

yup!

What Jack said!

[Dick Steinkamp]

If you ask 4 Model A guys which head gasket to use, you'll get 5 different answers.

[H. L. Chauvin]

When heads were "flat" ......... and tops of engines were "flat" ....... "used" head gaskets (from "all" head gasket manufacturers), worked very well often, with a "Permatex No.2" coating on both sides ...... "if" one provided the proper head tightening sequence along with the proper head bolt/nut torque.

This is Top Secret Classified Information down below extracted from 1930 Top Secret FBI securely hidden files ... so please, don't let others know:


"No Model A head gasket will work to remedy Model A head gasket leaks if the mating surfaces are incorrect ............. and "if" the gasket is not installed properly."

[barkleydave]

Boy did that clear things up for me ! LOL Ok just to add to the confusion.

1. My current Head is Stock, with NO issues...not leaking etc. I would estimate around 3,000 miles since it was torn down by PO.
2. Just looking for a little more torque for hills on tours.
3. I do not know if the studs were replaced but suspect they probably were. Very good engine rebuild and no issues for 3 seasons.

4. Do I replace the studs? or if no issues is it better to leave them be?

5. I have seen torque specs of 50-60 ft lbs for a HC 5.5-1 Snyder head?

So what is correct?????

Thanks... the gasket comment was great 5 opinions when only 4 gaskets are available.. Love it!

[denniskliesen]

This is what they recommend to use...

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/b-head-gasket

This is what their instructions are.

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/Co...GUIDE-3887.pdf

If it fails, you can blame them. It's too bad you are in Kentucky and I'm all the way over at the other side of the continent - I'd trade you heads - straight across. But you might not want a 6:1 head...

[Tom Wesenberg]

I always use the copper gasket with Copper Coat on both sides. On my own engines, I've even cleaned up used copper gaskets and put them back on with success.

[Dick M]

I have the 5.5 Snyder head on my Babbitt engine. I torque it to 55 lbs and the stock head studs work just fine. My preference is the "Best Head Gasket" from Bert's in Denver. Use copper coat when installing the head. Good Luck!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I don't tell anyone, but I spray BOTH sides with DULL ALUGIMUM SPRAY PAINT!---ALWAYS have!
Bill Dull

[barkleydave]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I don't tell anyone, but I spray BOTH sides with DULL ALUGIMUM SPRAY PAINT!---ALWAYS have!
Bill Dull

Bill your secret is safe with me! "Wink"

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Dave,

1. When Police heads were first produced, 80 somewhat years ago, neither the Ford highly trained engineers ............ nor even our physical prophet Mr. Albert Einstein ....... recommended specially manufactured high compression head gaskets, or special higher strength high compression head studs, or even this most brutal head and block damaging increase in head bolt torque.

2. As per your initial post's question, like why "50 Percent on the other opinion crap"?

3. In my humble opinion, this new 50% crap suggested by today's Model A prophets came from possibly only two (2) sources:

A. Those Model A owners who never knew about the 1930 Top Secret FBI securely hidden Model A head gasket files; and,

B. Those Model A owners who heard about the 1930 Top Secret FBI securely hidden Model A head gasket files .......... but .... they never had a Top Secret Security Clearance to access these hidden FBI files.

4. Many may not agree, but this 21st Century "Wiki-Leak" Model A Information recently exposed in the News does not even address the often mentioned rear bearing leaks in "Wiki-Leaks" ....... on page 127,493, "Wiki-Leaks" opens the files and exposes part of the 1930 Top Secret FBI securely hidden Model A head gasket files, as to "why" any Model A head gasket may leak.

5. Many still do not understand, nor did they read this 1930 hidden FBI revelation.

Again, only in my opinion, your truck is simply awesome ..... also, your strong desire to seek Model A truth and trying to filter out the other Model A 50% crap is a very rare virtue ............ and definitely a step in the right direction.

[updraught]

So what is the secret ingredient difference between copper coat and aluminium paint?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=a...nt+head+gasket

[Dodge]

A trick my Dad taught me when I had no money, was to take the copper head gasket and
soak it overnight in water. Then put it in the freezer to swell the core and put it back on
again.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Per #17 ....none ............ after one's misaligned, warped head and block are milled dead "flat";

and after proper Model A head torque procedure is provided, one may just just take his gasket sealant pic from many sources:

Cup grease recommended in writing for Model T's by Ford; Helman's Mayonaise mixed with French's Yellow Mustard & Hunt's Ketchup ..... or non-detergent oil mixed with Greek Olive Oil and Aunt Jemima's Pancake Mix.

Our Model A head gasket stock holders secretly adore repeat business from all types of warped heads.

[RawhideKid]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Per #17 ....none ............ after one's misaligned, warped head and block are milled dead "flat";

and after proper Model A head torque procedure is provided, one may just just take his gasket sealant pic from many sources:

Cup grease recommended in writing for Model T's by Ford; Helman's Mayonaise mixed with French's Yellow Mustard & Hunt's Ketchup ..... or non-detergent oil mixed with Greek Olive Oil and Aunt Jemima's Pancake Mix.

Our Model A head gasket stock holders secretly adore repeat business from all types of warped heads.

Can't fool me, THAT is Thousand Island Dressing, my ex-mother-in-law used to make it from scratch and add a bit of sweet pickle relish.

[PC/SR]

Mr Chauvin is absolutely right about the hidden FBI files concerning the Model A head gasket issue which were never made public in this country. But the real truth lies in the secret KGB/FBS/NKVD Soviet files that started when the Model A was licensed to Russia as the GAZ in the early 30's.
With the onset of WWII it was determined that the BEST gasket, with copper coat sprayed (or painted) on both surfaces was the superior sealant for stock or high compression heads, when combined with 55-60 lbs torque with regular followups for a few hundred miles. Mr. (Bill Dull) Williamson's use of aluminum spray paint was a war expedient, but is effective to this day. Same principal.
As Mr Chauvin indicates, the secret to rear main bearing leaks is shrouded in mystery to be addressed at a later time. It can only be said now that, as Mr Chauvin notes, the term WikiLeaks takes on a whole new meaning in this regard.

[barkleydave]

UNBELIEVABLE LOL I think I might go with BAZOOKA BUBBLE GUM for a head sealant!

I new the Russians would be involved somewhere!! LOL

[TinCup]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

If you ask 4 Model A guys which head gasket to use, you'll get 5 different answers.

I loaned a composite gasket to a friend so he could get his car back together and when he brought a replacement for it to last nights meeting I lost count of the different opinions. I have the recommended gasket from Snyders on my car and has been on my car for 6 years. All parts fail.

[Bob-A]

Reference thread #17 from Bill,

I wondered when some one would mention silver (aluminum) paint for a head gasket sealer. Old bikers use to use the silver paint on their Harley
head gaskets. Which included me until Teflon gaskets came along and I was told no gasket sealer was needed. It has been a while but I believe I still used the silver paint. With a Teflon had gasket and no problems. CR is 8.5 lbs with my "natural arm" as the head bolt torque specs. Aluminum head to a cast iron cylinder

Now, what I would like to know is. Would a Thomas CR 6.7 lbs aluminum "B"
head work best with a composite gasket and aluminum (silver) paint head gasket sealer? What about head nut torque?

BarkleyDave, I apologize if I hijacked your thread.

Bob-A (Bob Barkley)

PS: I've also got an iron Simmons HC head cleaned up by my Head Guru who recommends a composite gasket with copper coat sealer. Head CR is
approx. 5.9 lbs I'm guessing. But this is another story.

[Bob-A]

Correction: Bill's thread message is #14 not #17. Bob-A

[John]

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Aluminum paint as a sealer was an innovation of Smokey Yunick of NASCAR Hall of Fame. Yunick ran "Smokey's Best Damn Garage in Town" on Beach Street in Daytona Beach. He was known for his innovative work on NASCAR and Indianapolis race cars. He was also an early advocate of safety in NASCAR vehicles.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Dave,

FWIW:

I tried Mr. Bratton's "Silicone" head gasket (10) years ago on my 1930 Town sedan.

The gasket instructions recommended "no" gasket sealer.

Knowing how some stock holders in the past write instructions so they can acquire repeat business for their products, I did not follow head gasket instructions, and followed the 1930 FBI Top Secret recommendations of coating both sides of any Model A head gasket with the old reliable non-hardening "Permatex No. 2" recommended by vintage FBI mechanics during the 1920's, i.e., Model T days.

According to a 1930 FBI mechanic's addendum, Permatex No. 2 allows the head gasket to slide sideways when torqued, thus not allowing the head gasket to wrinkle which may cause leaks -- this was also recently confirmed by a subsequent addendum issued by Wiki-Leak, to insure no Model A head gasket acquired leaks.

I tried re-torquing this Model A head gasket twice in the past 10 years by loosing one or two nuts and reading torque on my torque wrench; however maybe because this "Silicone" gasket had no wrinkles because of the Permatex No. 2, head nuts still appeared to be tightened to 55 ft. lbs.

Anyway, after 10 years with my "flat" Police high compression head & "flat" engine block, I still have no leaks .... I did not report this to Wiki-Leak yet; but thinking about it after the FBI soon works out everything with Wiki-Leak to correct all of what is printed in today's news.

This same 1930 Top Secret FBI report wrote about how to permanently warp a Model A head on enemy Model A engines carrying enemy weapons while preparing for WWII in Europe; i.e., un-even over-torquing the head nuts can warp the head and also raise the small area of cast iron between cylinders 2 & 3.

Another way to warp an enemy's Model A a head is to approach an enemy Model A engine and totally remove head nuts, (one by one, out of sequence), when the engine is hot ...... (S +H =W), is a 1930's FBI secret equation for: Cast Iron Stress + Heat = Warping ---- please keep this equation under your hat and don't reveal this unknown secret.

Hope these 1930's FBI reports can help a little to avoid just a few, future Model A head gasket leaks.

[Tacoma Bob]

MMMMM Fake news. LOL

[H. L. Chauvin]

Good point Bob .......... "FAKE NEWS".

After thinking, it could also be possibly called "PROPER GANDER".

Every time it is intentionally written, some poor fellow gets "GOOSED"!

[Bob-A]

John (ref. #26 message),

My dad was a friend of Smokey back in the day. And dad with Fireball Roberts were the first people to go around the Daytona track after the last coat of asphalt was laid down. Dad wasn't a racer, he was a heavy equipment salesman. But he knew everybody in Daytona in the 50's & 60's,
especially Bill France.

Sorry for the non-A history lesson.

Bob-A

[barkleydave]

First I wish to thank all for your contributions to this discussion.

Not to be a bother but..... I do have a couple of questions. My Snyder head arrived yesterday.

?
1. Does the head need to be machined before installation? Or can a assume it is true?
2. Current OEM head is fine with no leaks etc so I am going to clean up the deck etc.
3. What might I expect for increased compression with the 5.5:1 head over the stock head.
Current compression is 58-62 lbs

My truck will cruise at 45 on the flat no problem and will do over 50+ but I never run her that fast unless gaining speed for a long uphill grade. (have a lot of those here in KY)

I am hoping for more pulling power for hills not more speed.

Again thanks for all the comments... Been around old cars forever and find the more I thought I knew the less I really do!

[updraught]

Seeing nobody has mentioned it

http://www.secretsofspeed.com/gaskets.htm

PS. The local mechanic had an ancient tin of silver paint when I was a kid. Borrowed it a few times to reuse a head gasket. Never failed.

[Tom Wesenberg]

A local shop should be able to check the new head for flatness, and hopefully will be honest with the answer, and not out for more work for no reason. I bought a Snyder 5.5 head, but haven't checked it yet.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

On our Old Flathead Indian Twin, in our 3/4 Midget, Chief & I cut our own COPPER head gaskets annealed them & sealed them with the ALUJIMUM GOO, from OLD cans of cheep ALUJIMUM paint!
Whenever the heads were off, we just annealed them again & re-sealed them the same way. Ever try to cut a COPPER head gasket for a Model A????
Bill Rrrrrrr

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Good point Bob .......... "FAKE NEWS".

After thinking, it could also be possibly called "PROPER GANDER".

Every time it is intentionally written, some poor fellow gets "GOOSED"!

Mr. H.L., being that you seem to have knowledge of our billed friends?

Could you tell me, if a Ram is a sheep, and a donkey is an Ass, why is a Ram in the Ass a Goose?

Herm.

[Y-Blockhead]

This warrents another look at Lisa's "Head Basket".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ae4NDjHr4Y

[H. L. Chauvin]

Mr. Herm,

1. Your Reply #35 presents a very interesting question which applies to other sorts of recent Top Secret discoveries by WlklLeak ........ like:

A. Why the Ram, the Ass, and the Goose, can eat exactly the same green grass; but, when they drop the grass a few days later; all three (3) items of what each drops has a totally different geometric shape.

B. According to WikiLeak, they searched the main cabin of Noah's Arc and found ancient written evidence that after all three (3) of these animals were loaded on his boat, they were fighting among each other ..... so Noah began performing Animal Stem Cell Research with the different intricate anatomies and digestive channels of the Ram, the Ass, and the Goose to try to make them more friendly.

C. Not only did WikiLeak reveal that they found that Noah described that a Ram in the Ass was a Goose; but Noah also recorded that in his opinion, a Goose trying to fight with strong Ram, was an Ass.

D. Most of what WikiLeak finds and reveals appears rather simple, if we stop and think about it.

Hope this helps.

[redmodelt]

We shellac our composite head gaskets. coat once, let flash off, another coat and install while tacky.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

We shellac our composite head gaskets. coat once, let flash off, another coat and install while tacky.

So, you're the guy!

The first Model A head I ever removed was installed this way. I had the whole front of the car off the ground when I connected a hoist to the head. It took lots of penetrating oil, sharp knives all around the gasket, and several hammer taps on the knives to get the head moving. I have never seen a head so glued in place as that one was.

[30 Tudor]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

So, you're the guy!

The first Model A head I ever removed was installed this way. I had the whole front of the car off the ground when I connected a hoist to the head. It took lots of penetrating oil, sharp knives all around the gasket, and several hammer taps on the knives to get the head moving. I have never seen a head so glued in place as that one was.

Ok so it was a bit irritating,,,

Did it work? I'll try most things once, sometimes twice.
Will I never ever have to pull it forever because it leaked?

So how much is that question worth,,just a half a mill.?

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: HEAD GASKET SEALERS: Just last week, WikiLeak later addressed Model A head gasket sealerS with an asterisk (*) in their Top secret Report No. 839 as an Addendum:

*839A*: "If a Model A head is "flat" and if a Model A block is "flat" ..... Model A owners may even successfully use "Preparation H" for a Model A head gasket sealer; however, if either metal surface is not "flat" ......... a new or used Model A head gasket could possibly get shellaced!"

The "Model A Observer" reported this morning that our CIA and FBI directors were up all night last night with two (2) chemist from MIT with test tubes trying to determine the cholesterol, (CHOH), HDL and LDL levels of "Preparation H" and "Indian Head shellac" to try to decipher if this WikiLeak Addendum was in any way tied to the head gaskets used in the North Korean nuclear test.

The final CIA/FBI findings were reported as follows:

"Different types of Model A head gasket sealers are still irrelevant .... and "Flat" is in!"

[30 Tudor]

My mom all ways told me, son when you get old and grey,,,
DO NOT!!! EVER!!! get your prep-H mixed up with your Indian Head Shellac,,,,
to get my head out at that point would take a crane,,,
but I thought she said train,,,
so I said, I can't take a train in that condition,,
at that point she choked on sumphing she was chewing on,,
and never did tell me on which end to use the Indian Head Schh-llacK

some old folk remedy