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Old 07-17-2017, 08:18 AM   #21
KGBnut
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

Like I said, Pop and I were just talking hypothetically. By the way, I don't think the change would be brought about because the planet runs out of gasoline. I agree that we have a long way to go before the 'wells all run dry.' But, as more modern car buyers switch to electric (or some other fuel) either by choice or regulation, fewer outlets will find it economically viable to sell it.

Think about this, it wasn't all that long ago that each town had a couple of blacksmiths. If you need one now, you need to go searching, and may have to drive quite a long way.

I would like to know more about that Article on the fella that drove to DC on alcohol. Anybody have a copy of it?

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Old 07-17-2017, 08:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

During WWII our next door neighbor (ex-farmer) had a '30 or '31 Chevrolet. He had drilled a hole in the top of the carb and used a syringe to fill/empty the bowl with gas or kerosene. I remember that the car smoked a lot.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

During Gas Rationing, some ran 1/2 gas & 1/2 kerosene, they were a BUGGER to start COLD!!!
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

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Originally Posted by 2manycars View Post
Many years ago there was an article in the model A News about a guy who drove his model A from his home to Washington DC on alcohol, and when he got the the steps of congress, he poured a bottle of Vodka in the tank. He said it ran fine, just needed the GAV opened up a lot more, and he had to preheat the carburetor in the morning with some electric heater that he plugged in at the motel.
Well vodka is mainly just ethanol and water so it would work. But what kind of "alcohol" did the guy use? Ethanol or methanol? Where did he buy it? His fuel mileage would have been lousy! Plus, alcohol is hard to vaporize, especially cold, which is why the guy needed to preheat the carb. You probably have noticed that alcohol burning dragsters have a guy squirting gasoline into the injectors to start the things (and then they often quit until they're warm). Unvaporized alcohol doesn't burn and ends up in the oil, diluting it. Plus it absorbs moisture from the air during storage.
All in all , not very practical!
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

I know that a number of old tractors were designed to run on kerosene, but usually had a small gasoline tank for starting. You would start it on gas just to warm it up for a moment, then switch over to kerosene.

I barely remember being able to get kerosene out of the pump, and it was cheaper than gas. The only place I see it anymore is at the hardware store for use in things like kerosene lamps. I wouldn't even have a guess what it costs now.

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Old 07-17-2017, 12:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

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I know that a number of old tractors were designed to run on kerosene, but usually had a small gasoline tank for starting. You would start it on gas just to warm it up for a moment, then switch over to kerosene.

I barely remember being able to get kerosene out of the pump, and it was cheaper than gas. The only place I see it anymore is at the hardware store for use in things like kerosene lamps. I wouldn't even have a guess what it costs now.

Ken
theres one gas station for sure and maybe 2 more around me you buy it by the gallon from the pump. Just has to be pumped into the DOT approved blue plastic container (wont accept the 5 gal metal container even though its labeled kerosine). Unfortunately it was more than the cost of Diesel but cheaper than buying by the gallon can at hardware stores.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

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Originally Posted by 2manycars View Post
Many years ago there was an article in the model A News about a guy who drove his model A from his home to Washington DC on alcohol, and when he got the the steps of congress, he poured a bottle of Vodka in the tank. He said it ran fine, just needed the GAV opened up a lot more, and he had to preheat the carburetor in the morning with some electric heater that he plugged in at the motel.
With vodka at 40 to 50 percent alcohol (the rest is water) I don't think he could drive on it.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:33 PM   #28
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With vodka at 40 to 50 percent alcohol (the rest is water) I don't think he could drive on it.
If he dumped in everclear, gem clear, or some other 190 proof stuff its 95-97% alcohol...but yea normal vodka is 40-60 proof.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:25 PM   #29
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Over here, we run lots of cars on LPG. That's why we don't call petrol, gas.
I ave had several and the main modern car in the family is dual fuel. Gas outlets are already becoming further apart which all contradicts the movement to cleaner fuels. I don't think I will be doing it again.
I heard the other day that the French government has banned fossil fuel powered cars from 2040. The writing is on the wall "writ large".
I read an article some time ago in Hemmings that Paris, France has a system in place where only new cars are allowed in the city and the older a car is the further away from the city it is allowed. LPG has a lower BTU content than petrol which won't help the mpg any.
Things like this don't usually end well for the car people.

Last edited by Growley bear; 07-17-2017 at 02:29 PM. Reason: add text
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:44 PM   #30
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I read an article some time ago in Hemmings that Paris, France has a system in place where only new cars are allowed in the city and the older a car is the further away from the city it is allowed. LPG has a lower BTU content than petrol which won't help the mpg any.
Things like this don't usually end well for the car people.
You are correct about gas containing less energy per litre but that is not important. What counts is how many $ to get from here to there. Gas costs about half what petrol costs even though you use more of it. That's why it was popular.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:58 PM   #31
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

When I hear talk like this, and articles announcing the end of gasoline powered cars and electric taking over, etc. I think back to the fall of 1973 when I was working in the local Sunoco gas station.

The big news was that oil was running out, OPEC was shutting us off due to the 1973 Israeli War, we'd all be out of gasoline in just a few short years, prices will go thru the roof IF you can get the stuff,and on and on. And on.

Did that ever happen?? No.

Antique car and muscle car friends were worrying, saying 'we need to ditch these things before they are worthless.' I knew some that actually did just that.

Volvo announcing what they did last week.... maybe maybe not. Pie in the sky Green talk as far as I'm concerned. Basic battery technology is the same today as it was with the 1913 Baker Electric. And every time you re-charge a battery it loses some 'life' they get weaker over time.

No, unless someone can build a GOOD electric vehicle and it hasn't been done yet, you can bank on petroleum being the main fuel source.

And one more thing, always follow the money that is what drives all of this. In reality, Govt. hates fuel efficient cars and electric cars unless they can put extra taxes on them, like the 'tax you pay per mile' that has been kicked around in the past. Today's cars with satellite linkage and your tattle tale 'smart' phone will keep tabs on how many miles you are driving.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:27 PM   #32
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And one more thing, always follow the money that is what drives all of this. In reality, Govt. hates fuel efficient cars and electric cars unless they can put extra taxes on them, like the 'tax you pay per mile' that has been kicked around in the past. Today's cars with satellite linkage and your tattle tale 'smart' phone will keep tabs on how many miles you are driving.
sadly yes - theres a reason our European friends can have small efficient 3-4-6-8 cyl diesel engines in cars that get 40-80mpg all day long. even thier gas engines are well ahead of ours.

If they wanted to we would be driving 100mpg cars by now. Heck my 1980 full carb no computer iron head/block vacuum advance chevette gets 40mpg on the interstate and 32 mixed...thats screaming at 3100 rpm at 65mph...

37 years ago we didnt have fuel injection, variable valve timing, infinite mpg engine braking, cylinder deactivation, carbon fiber, aluminum car panels, aluminum blocks (ok we did but were disastrous - need not mention Vega...) and im still getting better mpg than half the economy cars out there today...

my new 2017 truck is all knowing and sends me via email, onstar, and my dealer a health report of itself every month... I can see my driving habbits, hard stops, hard acceleration when and how many times...also can remote unlock, lock, check current fuel in the tank, current tire psi, and average mpg anywhere in the world via phone or PC...it needs to be less "informative" to me and everyone...
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:43 PM   #33
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

>>No, unless someone can build a GOOD electric vehicle and it hasn't been done yet, you can bank on petroleum being the main fuel source.

I was reading that %25 of all mountain bikes in mountain bikes parks in Germany are now electric.

Volvo is going hybrid.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:50 PM   #34
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No, unless someone can build a GOOD electric vehicle and it hasn't been done yet, you can bank on petroleum being the main fuel source.
I guess you haven't heard of Tesla and the break throughs they have been making, enough to build their own battery plant!
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

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I know that a number of old tractors were designed to run on kerosene, but usually had a small gasoline tank for starting. You would start it on gas just to warm it up for a moment, then switch over to kerosene.
Ken
KGB,
I operated a Caterpillar-22 that used this system. Little Bitty Dude, looked like a "HOT-TRACKS" TOY--SMOKED like a BITCH I could write a book about my "ADVENTURES" with it!!!
The tracks were SO WORN, Chief & I took out a link in each one, so we could adjust them! (HUSKY TORCH REQUIRED) & a PROFANE Vocabulary
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

And one more thing, always follow the money that is what drives all of this. In reality, Govt. hates fuel efficient cars and electric cars unless they can put extra taxes on them, like the 'tax you pay per mile' that has been kicked around in the past. Today's cars with satellite linkage and your tattle tale 'smart' phone will keep tabs on how many miles you are driving.[/QUOTE]

Let's see'em install that in a Model A!
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

I remember when you were HOT STUFF, if you had CAR tires/wheels on your HORSE/MULE drawn wagon, for a trip to town. They hauled rations of HAY/OATS, for return trip "FUEL"--GOD, I'm OOOOOLD!!!
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

Just one (1) actual experience:

Our 1946 Farmall AV had two (2) fuel tanks. Many of the even older vintage Allis-Chalmers and other vintage tractors also had these similar two (2) tanks.

The small tractor tanks were for storage of higher octane gasoline needed for engine starting; and the large tractor tanks were for storage of less expensive, low octane, tractor fuel which one switched to after the tractor started.

The gasoline was more expensive because government officials, (in addition to levying sales taxes), had levied additional Federal Excise Taxes and additional States Excise Taxes to pay for maintaining roads and bridges.

The less expensive tractor fuel, without Excise Taxes, had purple coloring added to this fuel and it was against the law to use this less expensive tractor fuel in cars to avoid higher cost and added taxes.

I remember local State Troopers having road side checks, (mostly in rural areas), where fuel in automobile tanks were checked. If less expensive purple fuel was found in someone's car on a public highway, tickets were issued.

We also heard that Kerosene in our area was never used to fuel Model T's, Model A's or vintage tractors ........... in fact, we heard that those who tried running early vintage cars, (even prior to WWI), found using Kerosene to be a nasty carbon forming and backfiring disaster for gasoline engines.

From the actual stories I heard from 60 years ago, I personally think if "today", a Forum member would "actually" try operating his Model A on Kerosene, or a mixture of Kerosene and gasoline, and report what actually happened, we could hear a 100% real, and true actual experience of a lifetime, about how Model A engines perform with Kerosene.

Any Model A owner volunteers?

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 07-18-2017 at 12:15 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: Alternative Fuels in a Model A

Jet fuel?

http://classicroad.com/?p=1044
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:45 AM   #40
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sadly yes - theres a reason our European friends can have small efficient 3-4-6-8 cyl diesel engines in cars that get 40-80mpg all day long. even thier gas engines are well ahead of ours.

If they wanted to we would be driving 100mpg cars by now. Heck my 1980 full carb no computer iron head/block vacuum advance chevette gets 40mpg on the interstate and 32 mixed...thats screaming at 3100 rpm at 65mph...

37 years ago we didnt have fuel injection, variable valve timing, infinite mpg engine braking, cylinder deactivation, carbon fiber, aluminum car panels, aluminum blocks (ok we did but were disastrous - need not mention Vega...) and im still getting better mpg than half the economy cars out there today...

my new 2017 truck is all knowing and sends me via email, onstar, and my dealer a health report of itself every month... I can see my driving habbits, hard stops, hard acceleration when and how many times...also can remote unlock, lock, check current fuel in the tank, current tire psi, and average mpg anywhere in the world via phone or PC...it needs to be less "informative" to me and everyone...
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