Odometer reset

[Patrick brophy]

I have read several times in the past few years ,that when people have done a full restoration they rolled back the odometer.
The reason given was always ,the car is like new.
Is this a thing in the restoration field, and is this legal ?

[McMimmcs]

In the state of Michigan it is not legal. It is considered misrepresentation.

[rotorwrench]

Most cars are exempt after a number of years but every state is different. I consider it a waste of time unless an owner wants a replacement odometer to match the original. To zero one is for folks that restored a car back to factory new condition.

[Charlie Stephens]

I think the real test would be whether or not it was done to defraud a buyer. Another situation would be that the whole speedometer is often replaced during a restoration. I doubt it would ever be a problem but I am not a lawyer and I don't live in Alabama.

Charlie Stephens

[KULTULZ]

ODOMETER FRAUD -

https://www.justice.gov/civil/case/f...ering-statutes

SERVICE REPLACEMENT/REPAIR -

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbo...f-an-odometer/

I was taught at a dealership during my training (1968) while a new car get ready and used car repair to alter odometers.

Even if the car is totally restored (open to debate and everyone has a different expectation even riding on a salvage title), it is fraud for a reason, simple fact. It is comparable to modifying a VIN (IMO).

It is akin to every FYB being an ex-racing 312.

[Crankster]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I think it's kind of cute that you could find anybody that would care absent an intent to defraud. Those with the scratch on hand to buy restored cars are probably the ones who want that in the first place.

See also "Mileage In Excess of Mechanical Limits" and "Odometer Discrepancy". YMMV

[Patrick brophy]

When I received this car the dash was partially disassembled, and it appeared that at some point there was some work done.
Since I am going to redo the dash and wiring, and clean the gauges etc, I was wondering about the odometer as it appears to have been tampered with at some point. It does have some scratches and digs in the rollers.
The speedometer was not hooked up when I removed the dash, and the car was bought on a bill of sale ,no mileage noted.
Thanks for all the information.

[KULTULZ]

... the car was bought on a bill of sale

This is AL? Was the car bought in AL or out-of-state?
You can title a car with no original title there?

Usually when an odometer has been set back on this period car, the numerals will not line up correctly.

[Patrick brophy]

It was bought out of state. I received a notarized bill of sale. I used that to transfer the ownership.

The numerals do not line up.
That is what prompted my first post. I had read in the past where new odometers had been installed in restored vehicles ,and as I had recalled ,had been reset as "new".

Based on the responses above, I think I will steer clear of the "new" . I do need a new odometer and may need some guidance in setting it when I get to that point.

[miker98038]

In WA we have a mileage statement as part of the sale title transfer. Restored cars with “0” odometers are filled in “in excess of 100,000 miles”, at least the ones I’ve bought. One from a local restorer and one from a State Patrolman who had it done. Look at the classic car sites, many old vehicles, restored or not, show that statement in the add.

[KULTULZ]

It was bought out of state. I received a notarized bill of sale. I used that to transfer the ownership.

AL will title a vehicle with just a BILL of SALE? Was the VIN verified (PATENT PLATE and FRAME STAMPING)? Was there a mileage statement?

What bothers me is that there is only one reason for the odometer to be reset other than a service replacement and that is fraud.

If a seller states low mileage on a survivor, that vehicle is more valuable than say a complete restoration (if that was done correctly). Especially a collector vehicle that depends on exactly what the seller states. An investor can take a beating ($$$) if fraud is found later.

I know MD was one tough state. In some instances the car had to be trailered to Glen Burnie to be verified by the state police before paper and tags were issued. The VIN will also be run to see if the car was stolen at some point or if there is an original title floating somewhere.

[KULTULZ]

While carousing with my browser and taking my morning coffee (with a small shot of JD to get me fired up) perusing this subject, I came across this -

cornflakes
Charter Member
Nov '06

This isn’t what you asked about, but (I know! I know!)…

Along with Georgia, Alabama did not require titles until the 1970s. There used to be “title mills” in Birmingham that, for about $100-200, would buy your vehicle and then sell it back to you with a title. For a while it was by far the easiest way to title a vehicle that was not stolen but had lost its title through the years.

Titles Unlimited, one of the Alabama companies, got into trouble when the State of California discovered that they were providing titles for Cobra kit cars built in California. Things have probably tightened things up a bit since then.

SOURCE - https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh...tive/381888/10

This knocked a few cobwebs loose -

[Patrick brophy]

Let me start here. There is no attempt at fraud, and at no time was it considered. I simply asked a question regarding several articles that had referenced new odometers in restored vehicles.

Since I need to do some work on mine,I asked a question. I simply inquired if that was common in the restoration industry, nothing more.

As far as the title transfer, that was more than ten years ago ,and as far as I can recall, I had lost the title. I went back to the owner who was willing to sign a bill of sale.That needed to be signed by both me and the seller and notarized. I do not recall a mileage statement,but I could be mistaken. There was never any frame stamping etc. The lady at the local DMV did her thing, handed me a registration and a Historic plate for the car.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Patrick brophy

Let me start here. There is no attempt at fraud, and at no time was it considered. I simply asked a question regarding several articles that had referenced new odometers in restored vehicles.

Since I need to do some work on mine,I asked a question. I simply inquired if that was common in the restoration industry, nothing more.

I don't think anyone here implied that you personally attempted fraud. You asked a simple question and it developed into a discussion.

Sorry if you took that resulting discussion as a personal insult.

I really need to mind my own business. How I get involved in something like this is not a complete mystery but a personal defect.

[Patrick brophy]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I don't think anyone here implied that you personally attempted fraud. You asked a simple question and it developed into a discussion.

Sorry if you took that resulting discussion as a personal insult.

I really need to mind my own business. How I get involved in something like this is not a complete mystery but a personal defect.

I am not implying any such thing.,and I did not take it as an insult.

I asked a question that opened a rather large can of worms.

It did however, glean a wealth of information, for which I thank you.

[CrownVic55]

For what it's worth: I have owned my 55 Crown for over 60 years and bought it from my sister. Odometer has been around more than twice and has been broken numerous times. When I did my off-frame restoration a few years ago, I set the odometer to all zeros. Don't think that the next owner will care. The complete power train has been replaced several times, the front end completely rebuilt a couple of times, and the interior replaced on the restoration. Years ago, Oklahoma used to require the title when renewing tag. They would type the new tag number on the title. On my title, they ran out of room and have typed the new number around the border, on the reverse side and anywhere they could find a spot. Fortunately, Oklahoma quit adding the tag number to the title so I didn't have to have a separate paper for tag numbers.
Ben

[LOWRIDER]

I bought a 79 Ranchero around 1995 in Al. and it didn't come with a title. Bill of sale only. When I went to the SOS in MI. I had no trouble registering it with just the bill of sale. The person taking care of it had to ask someone else about it but I got it taken care of without any problems. Surprised me.

As far as the numbers not lining up on an odometer when you roll them back, they will line up if you do it correctly. Had to replace more than a few under warranty back then.

[paul2748]

Most DMV's know which states did not have titles, especially on old cars so they accept Bills Of Sale. Your bound to get a clerk that is not up on this. Ask for a supervisor if this happens.

[rotorwrench]

I've purchased cars and motorcycles that have had totally illegible odometers due to the way they were made. Go to zero or not but declare the millage unknown to prospective buyers. Don't try and misrepresent things and you won't get into trouble. Put it on the bill of sale. I did a Titles Unlimited deal once and I had to fill out a legal affidavit document to do the deal. This takes the responsibility away from them. I haven't seen an affidavit recently but it likely has a statement about the origin of the car as well as the mileage. Troubles really get started when a person makes a replica of an original design and then tries to sell it as an original car. That is definite fraud for sure. The mileage isn't as big a deal but still can be considered misrepresentation (just another form of fraud) if lies are told to a prospective buyer. There is no law that says a new or overhauled part can't be installed and that would include the speedometer. Just don't tell any tall tales and you won't get in trouble.

[jayvee34]

In Florida, vehicle's 25 years old and older are mileage exempt. It is illegal to reset
the mileage on later vehicles.
Also on restored cars, if the odometer numbers are not lined up across, they have been
set back, or tampered with, except for the 1/10 mile numbers.