Kicking out of 2nd

[sethkestenbaum]

Rebuilt Engine + Rebuilt Bellhousing + Rebuilt Transmission + My Reinstall of these parts = a car that kicks out of second gear when driven up a steep hill.

Background:
110 miles on a rebuilt engine, bellhousing, and transmission. While driving up steep hills, the car "kicks" itself out of 2nd gear. By "kick" I mean that the shifter slams itself out of gear with speed and force. It doesn't seem to do this on flat roads under normal driving, but will do it when I have to hit the gas and am working my way up a decent hill.

What I know and have checked so far:
1) The tower appears in good shape. It was rebuilt with new parts. The forks aren't bent and appear seated into the slots.
2) The car seems to be shifting correctly when I am driving around town.
3) The transmission has all new gears, barrings, etc from Brattons.
4) The two brass horse shoe shims at the accelerator pedal mechanism bolts were installed when the engine was put in the car (although they took considerable effort/prying to put in place).
5) I am using Bratton's 600W oil.
6) The car doesn't seem to kick out of 1st gear and or 3rd gear. Then again, with less than 500 miles on the new engine, I don't think I have driven the car over 45 MPH yet.
7) Before the rebuilds and reinstalls, the car didn't kick out of gear.

Before I pull the engine/transmission (which I would hate to do), I was hoping to get some suggestions on things to try and possible causes. I have Tom Endy's article It Jumps Out of Gear and shared a copy with the local model a mechanic. We still can't figure out the cause.

Thoughts? Insights? Suggestions?

[J Franklin]

The Ford service bullitens address the fit of the Transmission gears to the splined main shaft. You might want to read that section since you probably have all new bearings, since worn bearings can also cause this problem.

[hardtimes]

Hey Seth,
Has the trans 'shifter tower' been rebuilt. If not, I'd look into that !

[katy]

The tower appears in good shape. It was rebuilt with new parts

...

[ursus]

Even though the tower was "was rebuilt with new parts" it is still a suspect. An awful lot of problems are reported on this site that involve "all new parts". I would try to switch out the tower for a trial with another one that is known to be good, just to be sure.

[rscardina]

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I agree with switching out with a good tower known to work properly. I had a problem with mine not allowing me to shift into second. I was given a tower from a fellow club member and it worked fine. It will at least narrow the problem down.

[Dan Partain]

""4) The two brass horse shoe shims at the accelerator pedal mechanism bolts were installed when the engine was put in the car (although they took considerable effort/prying to put in place).""

This isn't enough, the flywheel housing needs to be aligned. There is much info on this in previous threads, here are a couple to get you started.

Hopefully you will find something else wrong, this will require pulling engine, or rear end and transmission.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...sing+alignment

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...sing+alignment

[Bob C]

Here is a picture of dialing in the flywheel housing.

Bob

[Tom Endy]

As suggested above the alignment of the clutch housing should be checked. According to the Ford service bulletins it should be within .006". This need only be of concern for the top 180 degrees of the housing as the lower 180 degrees is pulled into alignment when the bell housing is bolted up.

Sometimes the housing can be brought into alignment by varying the thickness of the two horseshoe washers at the ears of the clutch housing. The measurement should be made with all six bolts torqued down properly. This requires that two shorter bolts be used if the accelerator assembly is not installed.

Another consideration is the pilot nose on the input shaft that fits into the bearing in the flywheel. If the nose is worn it can affect the stability of the shaft. The nose can be repaired by machining it down and pressing a repair sleeve over it.

I have heard good reports of new transmission gears from Bratton's. However, I once had a transmission that a customer brought in to a local shop that would not stay in any gear. The shop owner tried several towers to no avail. He brought it to me and asked me to go through it. The transmission appeared to have been recently overhauled as it had some new gears in it. I noticed that the cluster and the two sliders had "Argentina" stamped on them and they looked different than an original. The only thing I did was replace the bearings using sealed bearings front and back and installed new cluster and idler shafts with the O-ring mod. Everything else looked good. It still jumped out of every gear when installed back in the car.

I suggested to the shop owner we replace the Argentina gears with serviceable originals. problem was solved.

Tom Endy

[1931 flamingo]

As Tom stated above. Did you replace the pilot bearing??
Paul in CT

[Tom Wesenberg]

Bob posted my picture of me dialing in my engine years ago. Normally I like to have the front of the engine down (in an engine stand) to be sure the crankshaft is fully forward to keep the dial indicator readings accurate. In this case I had to push the KRW turning bar forward as I took the readings. Flywheel cover misalignment would be my first guess as to the problem.

In the picture Bob posted, notice the top half of a gas tank from my brother's Caravan. I replaced his leaking tank and cut away the rusty bottom half. This makes a nice large pan for cleaning parts, and when not in use it makes a good cover for something stored outside.

[sethkestenbaum]

Paul, the pilot bearing was replaced.

I am hopeful that I can borrow a transmission tower over the next few weeks to "swap out" my current one to see if the problem is in the tower. The local mechanic tells me that he might have one available later this month. He got a kick of how easily I was able to strip the car to the transmission and remove the tower. I guess I must have learned a few things since I started this adventure. This stated, while I really don't want to, I am anticipating having to remove the engine and transmission (AGAIN) to address the matter. At least this time I already own an engine hoist and have a great wood stand for the engine. I might even paint the engine compartment.

[Tom Wesenberg]

When the tower is off give the second slider gear a feel for too much slop with the shaft. Try rocking it back and forth on the shaft. You shouldn't have enough play to feel.

[Jerry Kzoo]

When you say you replaced the pilot bearing, did you by chance measure the shaft diameter where it goes into the pilot bearing? Some of these shafts have been turned down to a smaller diameter due to wear(Maybe you have replaced the shaft as well).

Also, if you have the tower off, if you could post a picture showing the condition of the area where the Shift lever to shift forks meet.

I hope you figure it out and let us all know what the issue was.

Jerry

[Mitch//pa]

Did you discuss this with the gentleman that rebuilt your transmission? What were his thoughts? As you see from the replies there are many things that can cause your issue, so start with the obvious easy stuff first like the shift tower and a visual inspection inside the box while the tower is off as Tom mentioned. We're the shift rails, plungers and springs all replaced or reused?

[C26Pinelake]

Take it back to the rebuilder and let him figure it out ! If he is reputable he will stand behind his work. Wayne

[sethkestenbaum]

Mitch, The local model a guru that rebuilt the transmission came to my place yesterday for us to figure things out. He and I took the car for a test drive, recreated the conditions that pop the gear, opened up the transmission (removing the tower) and did a visual inspection. We also looked at certain parts (as best we could) vs the original parts (which I still have). Nothing seemed to be an obvious problem. He is suggesting that we consider removing the engine and transmission. I believe that all internal gears/shafts/etc to the transmission were replaced. I am not certain on the tower which parts were/weren't replaced. The mechanic felt that everything looked and felt right -- excepting the engine popping from gear. We are both trying to figure out the problem so we can fix it. I've also left a voicemail for the engine rebuilders to see if they had any thoughts on the matter.

[Roger V]

Like others, I've dealt with this more than once though more often with 3rd. Rebuilt is a relative term. Repeating some of the above, I've seen new pilot bearing but with a worn, loose fitting shaft, sloppy gear/shaft splines, misaligned flywheel housing, worn detent ball ends or weak springs, and a too heavy marble shift lever ball, one time with a decorative lever extender (cantilevered).

[Mitch//pa]

Seth you''ll get it figured out its just a minor setback... Soon you'll be a model A flat rate tech

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Seth you''ll get it figured out its just a minor setback... Soon you'll be a model A flat rate tech

AND, Seth should get a HUSKY Flat Rate, RATE!
It's a CRYIN' SHAME that TECHNICIANS don't COMMAND Higher Wages It takes YEARS & YEARS to gain experience & Proper Tools costs a BLIMIN' FORTUNE!!! AND, it's HARD PHYSICAL LABOR!!!--In ALL the YEARS I SLAVED, I didn't even git a "HERO" BADGE Once in awhile, a fair tip. BUT, once an Old Danish Couple GAVE me a nice 142-Volvo, that only needed a new distributor, for rescueing them from the freeway & taking them HOME!
Its' distributor advance was SO WORN that the weights were rubbing the distributor BODY & actually CUT the body in HALF! I've seen some WEIRD things in my past I could write a "book" about them.
Bill W.