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Old 09-03-2016, 08:20 PM   #1
burly
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Default No oil pressure

Recently installed a freshened up early Canadian flathead. Ran a mechanical gauge to where the original mushroom type electronic oil sending switch would have been installed and plugged the other 2 oil line outlets Canadian blocks have. This block has not been modified for the full flow system. Checked oil pressure after starting and zero. Shut her down!Removed line from rear of mechanical gauge and briefly restarted to see if gauge faulty? No oil shooting out? Shut her back down! Wondered if I may need to have mechanical gauge hooked to one of the other 2 oil outlets on bell housing. Well hoping really. Not touching again until I hear from some of the you gurus. Hope I haven't already damaged something. Appreciate any advice you guys might be willing to share. As always "thanks"!
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Did you 'prime' the oil pump?....
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: No oil pressure

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Originally Posted by petehoovie View Post
Did you 'prime' the oil pump?....
^ That would be my first thought. Disconnect power from the engine ignition, remove the spark plugs. Remove the fitting for the pressure gauge and pour a cup of oil down the hole. Leave the hole open and crank the engine (12v is best). Watch the open port for oil.

The port the gauge is connected to has nothing to do with it.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: No oil pressure

All of the ports are connected, so one is the same as another pressure wise.
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: No oil pressure

hmmm...methinks you might have the 95% oil setup on your block....you have 3 holes at the back of the block??....might be military block which used the 95% filtering setup...just a thought.....check horizontal passage for a plug....until you figure it out, don't run the engine....good luck....Mike
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: No oil pressure

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First of all. Has the pump been primed?
The pump should be delivering oil from one of the holes if it is cranked over with all those holes unplugged. If not oil needs to be pushed down into the pump before anything else happens.
Once oil will come back up by pump action (after priming) then move on to checking as Mike has suggested. The plug he is talking about, would be in the horizontal bore and requires an external loop from one of the bottom holes (horizontal or vertical) to the upper hole, as in a full flow filter or oil cooler loop. Otherwise the plug would need to be removed and the top hole and a bottom hole plugged.
I do not wish to complicate this, but usually the Canadian engines don't have a horizontal plug because they cleverly cause the diversion with the fitting in the top hole.

Last edited by Bluebell; 09-04-2016 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: No oil pressure

This one does have the 3 outlet holes. Horizontal. then the vertical for oil pressure sending unit then the top one in the bell housing. Sound like I need to either remove the plug from the horizontal (bottom) outlet or run a line from it to the top outlet in the bell housing (correct)? If I can get to the plug in the inside the vertical (bottom) outlet is it hex , carriage or screw head. Again thanks again everyone who has taken time to reply!
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: No oil pressure

You've probably seen this diagram. If you haven't,
you'll see where the grub screw is. If you are running
an oil filter, then the screw is left in. No filter, take the grub
screw out and block off the filter outlet.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: No oil pressure

The presence or absence of the grub screw would not effect the presence of oil pressure coming from the oil pump if all of the passages were open (plugs removed). It is a little unclear from your first post which passage you had your gauge plumbed into. On the diagram KGS posted if it is the two on the left, they are connected directly to the oil pump. If it is the one a little to the right and it has been modified for a 95% setup (you stated it had not) then you would not see oil pressure.

Need to figure out what you have. Prime the oil pump, then crank the engine with the spark plugs out and all of the oil passage plugs removed and see if you have oil. If so, plug the two on the left (in KGSs diagram) and check it again and see if you get oil pressure on the opening to the right. If not, it has been modified for a 95% filtration system.

At that point either setup the rest of the 95% system or remove the grub.

Last edited by JSeery; 09-04-2016 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: No oil pressure

All I can add is that, on my '51 Merc that had been sitting for over 20 years, it took an agonizingly long time for it to build pressure the first time I fired it. This was after I had primed the oil pump. Looking back, it was probably about 20-30 seconds, but it seemed like an eternity then. Now, it idles at 25 lbs and holds 45 lbs at 2000 rpm. How long did you crank it?

Last edited by tubman; 09-04-2016 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: No oil pressure

If it happened to be one of the Canadian modifications then it is a little different. Only the top fitting on the left (on the diagram) would have oil pressure IF the special fitting is still in place. In this case with the cranking test again there would be oil pressure on the left top plug opening but not the ones on the side or the one over to the right. If that is the case, just remove the fitting that blocks the other passageways.

Note: I really don't believe the fitting can remain in the block if the rest of the filtration system is removed, but if all else fails to pan out might be worth checking out. You should be able to see the sleeve blocking the passage by looking in the side passage opening if it was there.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Oil Fitting.JPG (42.4 KB, 75 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 09-04-2016 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by burly View Post
This one does have the 3 outlet holes. Horizontal. then the vertical for oil pressure sending unit then the top one in the bell housing. Sound like I need to either remove the plug from the horizontal (bottom) outlet or run a line from it to the top outlet in the bell housing (correct)? If I can get to the plug in the inside the vertical (bottom) outlet is it hex , carriage or screw head. Again thanks again everyone who has taken time to reply!
Move forward with caution on this one. There was a post here ~ 2/3 years ago where someone had their engine machined and internally plumbed for the 95% full flow oil filtering system during its rebuild. They didn't have the remote oil filter mount, filter and oil lines in place yet, but wanted to run the engine, and maybe take a ride in their project vehicle. So they temporarily plugged the three holes on the left rear of the engine. They fired up the engine and took their car for a drive, only to have the engine freeze up on them when they stopped, maybe at a red light. I believe the main and rod bearings were mostly all destroyed, and the crankshaft bearing journals needed to be repaired. It was a tough way to learn this lesson. I thought I had that post bookmarked, but can't seem to find it now.
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Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 09-04-2016 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Here u go

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38439

R
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:23 AM   #14
burly
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Thanks guys. I figured this new engine had these 3 holes from the factory? I didn't have it machined to have the 95% oil filtering system but maybe Ford did? I just know it has 3 holes where the original engine that came out only had 2 and the oil sensor switch was hooked to the top one and the bottom was plugged, again (That is on the original engine). The center outlet where the electronic oil sending switch would have been originally located is the passage I have my mechanical gauge plumbed into on the new Canadian engine. I have plugged the oil outlet and inlet holes, 1 above and 1 below. I will remove mechanical gauge hookup from the block (center or horizontal hole) and pour more oil down it and remove the plugs from the oil outlet and inlet holes then remove spark plugs and spin over and see what happens. Sounds like I definitely need to remove grub screw if I not running a filter? Much obliged fellas!
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Ford would not have installed the grub. It is fairly easy to check and see if there is anything in the passage way. Insert a punch or something and see how far in it goes. I'll post a photo of it. If it has the Canadian Ford modification it would have a sleeve on a fitting going down into the port from the top fitting.

Note:
Just went an measured a block. With the grub it is about 1.3 inches deep, without the grub it should be about 3.0 inches deep.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Oil Passages 2.jpg (57.2 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg Oil Passages.jpg (196.2 KB, 327 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 09-04-2016 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by burly View Post
Thanks guys. I figured this new engine had these 3 holes from the factory? I didn't have it machined to have the 95% oil filtering system but maybe Ford did? I just know it has 3 holes where the original engine that came out only had 2 and the oil sensor switch was hooked to the top one and the bottom was plugged, again (That is on the original engine). The center outlet where the electronic oil sending switch would have been originally located is the passage I have my mechanical gauge plumbed into on the new Canadian engine. I have plugged the oil outlet and inlet holes, 1 above and 1 below. I will remove mechanical gauge hookup from the block (center or horizontal hole) and pour more oil down it and remove the plugs from the oil outlet and inlet holes then remove spark plugs and spin over and see what happens. Sounds like I definitely need to remove grub screw if I not running a filter? Much obliged fellas!

Sounds like I definitely need to remove grub screw if I not running a filter? Much obliged fellas!

You state in your first post it has not been machined to 95% flow and in your above statement you state you need to remove grub screw???
If there is a screw in there it has been converted for filtration purposes.
Two conflicting statements. Remove the horizontal passage plug and see how deep the hole is with a 6" coat hanger wire and you are done.It will hit a grub if one is installed.If no screw discovered then your troubles are somewhere else.Who assembled the engine.

R
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
That is exactly the post I was talking about in my previous post, although it was over 5 yrs ago instead of 2/3 yrs. How time flies when we're having so much fun with Flatheads and early Ford V-8's
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: No oil pressure

The Canadians built 28,000 Universal (bren) carriers with this factory set up.(The British built 50,000)The majority of them ran just an oil cooler. Later they ran the oil cooler and a full flow filter off this system. A number of the Canadian military pattern trucks ran full flow filters from this port arrangement. None of then had a plug in the horizontal gallery because the top fitting had an extention tube that basically blocked off the horizontal bore. When the Australians Built their 8000 carriers they used a standard fitting, but plugged the horizontal bore. I have not seen the Australian plug, but am told it is a restrictor with a hole through it.
I have 3 sets of the long Canadian fittings and the Bypass valve for the oil coolers. I am into carriers.
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: No oil pressure

My guess is the holes for the cam bearing are not lined up.
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: No oil pressure

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My guess is the holes for the cam bearing are not lined up.
The oil ports in block are before the cam brg's there would be pressure there.

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Old 09-04-2016, 08:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Here is the long fitting from the top hole in the Canadian engine. This is just for others info.
I would just stress to Burly that there may be no plug in the cross drilling. He needs to make sure the pump is primed and working.
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File Type: jpg 20160905_095045.jpg (41.9 KB, 57 views)
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:11 AM   #22
burly
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
Sounds like I definitely need to remove grub screw if I not running a filter? Much obliged fellas!

You state in your first post it has not been machined to 95% flow and in your above statement you state you need to remove grub screw???
If there is a screw in there it has been converted for filtration purposes.
Two conflicting statements. Remove the horizontal passage plug and see how deep the hole is with a 6" coat hanger wire and you are done.It will hit a grub if one is installed.If no screw discovered then your troubles are somewhere else.Who assembled the engine.

R
You're right Ronnie. My bad! What I should have said originally was that "I didn't have it machined for 95% flow" but after I described what I had and after reading some of the responses folks were kind enough to send I was able to determine it had been machined for the 95% and that there could be a grub screw present, prior to that I all I knew was my old engine had 2 holes on the bell housing where this new one had 3 and that it was registering zero oil pressure. I purchased the engine from a gentleman who had the engine rebuilt for a project after which he found out would not adapt to his transmission of choice so he opted for an overhead valve and sold the flathead. I haven't met the gentleman who assembled the engine but have briefly talked with him on the phone. He seemed knowledgeable and has supposedly built numerous flatheads and model A engines.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Well guys no grub screw was present. Poured oil down the middle outlet hole, removed spark plugs and spun it over and it went to forcing oil right back out. Installed the spark plugs and re-attached the mechanical oil gauge. Fired her up, zero oil pressure, shut it back down. removed copper line from rear of gauge and started, a drop or 2 of oil then nothing? Shut it back down removed copper line and slipped a clear tube over the oil line fitting in bell housing, spun it over and it starts forcing oil back up the clear tube. Removed oil line fitting and installed original electric oil sending unit, fired it up and it's showing about 10 psi at idle and about 20 psi max as you increase RPMs. Sounds kind of low to me but builder rebuilt and used original oil pump rather than replace? Is that adequate pressure for an early 24 stud? Again thanks to all who have replied and sent pictures! You've been a great help.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Sure beats zero! It is on the low side but will not damage the engine. The orginal gauges are only a rough estimate of oil pressure. Need to get a good gauge hooked up. Connect it to a different port and leave your original where it is
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Good news Burly.
Is this the 50 lb sender, 80lb gauge issue?
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebell View Post
Good news Burly.
Is this the 50 lb sender, 80lb gauge issue?
Or vice-versa?
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:17 PM   #27
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Next step is to fit a working mechanical oil pressure gauge. That will tell you the truth, the original electric setup was as told above an approximation. Mix 80 and 50 lb stuff and it shows you that it's got some oil pressure at idle, and some more at higher rpm.
Don't be concerned with the numbers you got now, find the true pressure and go from there.
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Old 09-06-2016, 05:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: No oil pressure

Where did you dig up that mechanical gauge.It appears to be a dead player.You sound like there is some pressure a serviceable mechanical gauge will tell you where you are.

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