The Ford Barn

jwilliams81 · 03-31-2017, 07:29 AM

As a relatively new A owner, I have been curious as to why they don't have a full steel roof.
Knowing what I do about Henry, I am guessing it was a cost issue?

Kurt in NJ · 03-31-2017, 07:37 AM

I think it was a stamping issue along with the long seams needed to be finished----along with the traditional body methof of nailing to a woof frame----Ford was working to remove the wood by 31, the pickup had a steel roof, the slant window sedan lost it's structural wood mostly---think of the length of the seams to be welded, filled and leaded, I have a 53 Citroen, it's desige dates to early 30s, there is still the ring of reinforced metal where the cloth went, the top stamping was welded in and seams filled with lead, but you can see that not all the seams were "seamless", there are some transitions that don't quite match the unbroken contours of a one piece roof intergrated into the design

SeaSlugs · 03-31-2017, 07:38 AM

i was told while we've had the presses big enough at the time the mills couldn't supply and transport steel in wide enough sheets to be able to stamp out a roof.

2manycars · 03-31-2017, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

i was told while we've had the presses big enough at the time the mills couldn't supply and transport steel in wide enough sheets to be able to stamp out a roof.

I have heard that also, but the stamping for the side of a tudor takes a pretty big panel, bigger than the roof for a coupe would need. Even the back of a tudor or fordor is a bigger panel than would be needed for a coupe top. I think it was just an evolution of the early closed bodies, which were made like the carriages of not long before. Look at the body of a model T sedan, and you will see that it was flat, with the sides of the body ending at the top in a sharp corner, with the top attached at the edge.

JRShaw · 03-31-2017, 08:50 AM

I have read and seen articles that besides any sheet metal width or die capabilities, the technology for that deep of a draw did not exist at that time (early 1930's). The latest Model "A" News letter (January-February 2017) has mention of a full steel top Victoria on page #26. I am not sure if this would be a stamped insert of an appropriate size (my guess) -or- a truly fully stamped body with a metal roof. Ford did not come out with that until 1937.

John Stone · 03-31-2017, 09:03 AM

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Model A's flex so much that the top would just crack at the seams. I've seen hot rods that tops were welded and cracked.

Hicktick · 03-31-2017, 09:41 AM

Ever ride in a tin can ??? The noise would be loud .

.,

.,

Kevin in NJ · 03-31-2017, 10:11 AM

Ford wanted an all steel roof as it would be MUCH cheaper to build. Technology or design did not quite have the ability to make the structure.

Consider the slant sedans. They did a full change over by May of 31 when they were not far off from a design change to the 32's. The labor costs of building the wood bodied fordors was significant enough to warrant the change. The slants had wood blocks for interior mounting and then the wood for the top.

The reason for the switch to the more expensive stainless was labor costs to do the plating.

Remember this was the guy who hired a company to analyze all the plant operations to see if they could change things to reduce costs of manufacture.

CHuDWah · 03-31-2017, 12:59 PM

Most, if not all, non-Ford manufacturers also used non-steel roofs. If Ford, or any of the others, could have made all-steel roofs, they likely would have because it would have been a significant selling point over the competition. 1937 seems to be the year most changed to solid roofs. Was there some technological breakthrough then?

Will N · 03-31-2017, 01:42 PM

Just my own conjecture, but I don't think the size of the presses or the sheet metal was the limiting factor. I'm with Hicktick. The styling of the roofs back in the Model A era was a flat plane. Flat metal has no rigidity, and would likely tend to drum as the car moved. Tin can! It wasn't until the styling changed to add curvature and thus rigidity to the roof that full metal was used.

mshmodela · 03-31-2017, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwilliams81

As a relatively new A owner, I have been curious as to why they don't have a full steel roof.
Knowing what I do about Henry, I am guessing it was a cost issue?

Roof kept water out... just like the non-steel roof on most homes...

BILL WILLIAMSON · 03-31-2017, 02:00 PM

I once rented a Ford Taurus, with a flat "plastic" section in the roof. At 82 MPH, it would drum you out of the car & I couldn't even HEAR the RADIO!
Bill Huh?

Chippy Minton · 03-31-2017, 04:34 PM

In Britain the 1950's Ford Angela's, Populars and Prefects had cloth panels in their roofs. There must still have been some advantage then, long after the potential problem of pressing would have been sorted out.

redmodelt · 03-31-2017, 04:47 PM

RE; I have read and seen articles that besides any sheet metal width or die capabilities, the technology for that deep of a draw did not exist at that time (early 1930's).

In the early years of the Model T's, the rear axle housing was drawn steel so the technology for deep draw was in use. Also think about the Model T crank case.

Tom Wesenberg · 03-31-2017, 05:20 PM

Fabric top means no hail dents.

harryc · 03-31-2017, 06:47 PM

I had a tudor back in the 60s that had a steel top attached with metal screws when I got it. I sprayed the underside of the steel panel with undercoating and it made no noise at all

SeaSlugs · 03-31-2017, 07:01 PM

SOunds about like jeep wranglers like 87-2006, plastic hard top sounds like your driving a plastic igloo cooler. soft top sounds like a tent going down the road...

Gold Digger · 03-31-2017, 10:16 PM

Back in 1968 and 9 I owned a 28 coupe that someone had put galvanized sheet metal roof in that was soldered all way around. Didn't leak a drop and I can't remember ever hearing any type of noise made from the roof. It didn't have any head liner if that makes a difference.

03-31-2017, 07:29 AM	#1
jwilliams81 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Cincinnati OH Posts: 418	Why not a full steel roof? As a relatively new A owner, I have been curious as to why they don't have a full steel roof. Knowing what I do about Henry, I am guessing it was a cost issue? __________________ 1931 Murray Town Sedan. Black body with Apple Green pin stripe. 1923 Model T Touring with electric start. Low radiator Cincinnati, Ohio

03-31-2017, 07:38 AM	#3
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Why not a full steel roof? i was told while we've had the presses big enough at the time the mills couldn't supply and transport steel in wide enough sheets to be able to stamp out a roof. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

03-31-2017, 08:50 AM	#5
JRShaw Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Fairport, NY Posts: 133	Re: Why not a full steel roof? I have read and seen articles that besides any sheet metal width or die capabilities, the technology for that deep of a draw did not exist at that time (early 1930's). The latest Model "A" News letter (January-February 2017) has mention of a full steel top Victoria on page #26. I am not sure if this would be a stamped insert of an appropriate size (my guess) -or- a truly fully stamped body with a metal roof. Ford did not come out with that until 1937.

03-31-2017, 09:03 AM	#6
John Stone Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 710	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Model A's flex so much that the top would just crack at the seams. I've seen hot rods that tops were welded and cracked.

03-31-2017, 09:41 AM	#7
Hicktick Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Hickory Tavern , SC Posts: 422	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Ever ride in a tin can ??? The noise would be loud . ., ., __________________ Sometimes I want to say ,,You should have bought a Shay.

03-31-2017, 07:37 AM	#2
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,158	Re: Why not a full steel roof? I think it was a stamping issue along with the long seams needed to be finished----along with the traditional body methof of nailing to a woof frame----Ford was working to remove the wood by 31, the pickup had a steel roof, the slant window sedan lost it's structural wood mostly---think of the length of the seams to be welded, filled and leaded, I have a 53 Citroen, it's desige dates to early 30s, there is still the ring of reinforced metal where the cloth went, the top stamping was welded in and seams filled with lead, but you can see that not all the seams were "seamless", there are some transitions that don't quite match the unbroken contours of a one piece roof intergrated into the design

03-31-2017, 10:11 AM	#8
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Ford wanted an all steel roof as it would be MUCH cheaper to build. Technology or design did not quite have the ability to make the structure. Consider the slant sedans. They did a full change over by May of 31 when they were not far off from a design change to the 32's. The labor costs of building the wood bodied fordors was significant enough to warrant the change. The slants had wood blocks for interior mounting and then the wood for the top. The reason for the switch to the more expensive stainless was labor costs to do the plating. Remember this was the guy who hired a company to analyze all the plant operations to see if they could change things to reduce costs of manufacture.

03-31-2017, 12:59 PM	#9
CHuDWah Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Kritter Krick, Flaw-duh Posts: 1,158	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Most, if not all, non-Ford manufacturers also used non-steel roofs. If Ford, or any of the others, could have made all-steel roofs, they likely would have because it would have been a significant selling point over the competition. 1937 seems to be the year most changed to solid roofs. Was there some technological breakthrough then?

03-31-2017, 01:42 PM	#10
Will N Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,100	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Just my own conjecture, but I don't think the size of the presses or the sheet metal was the limiting factor. I'm with Hicktick. The styling of the roofs back in the Model A era was a flat plane. Flat metal has no rigidity, and would likely tend to drum as the car moved. Tin can! It wasn't until the styling changed to add curvature and thus rigidity to the roof that full metal was used.

03-31-2017, 02:00 PM	#12
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Why not a full steel roof? I once rented a Ford Taurus, with a flat "plastic" section in the roof. At 82 MPH, it would drum you out of the car & I couldn't even HEAR the RADIO! Bill Huh? __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

03-31-2017, 04:34 PM	#13
Chippy Minton Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Seattle Posts: 129	Re: Why not a full steel roof? In Britain the 1950's Ford Angela's, Populars and Prefects had cloth panels in their roofs. There must still have been some advantage then, long after the potential problem of pressing would have been sorted out.

03-31-2017, 04:47 PM	#14
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Why not a full steel roof? RE; I have read and seen articles that besides any sheet metal width or die capabilities, the technology for that deep of a draw did not exist at that time (early 1930's). In the early years of the Model T's, the rear axle housing was drawn steel so the technology for deep draw was in use. Also think about the Model T crank case. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

03-31-2017, 05:20 PM	#15
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Fabric top means no hail dents.

03-31-2017, 06:47 PM	#16
harryc Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: CA Posts: 206	Re: Why not a full steel roof? I had a tudor back in the 60s that had a steel top attached with metal screws when I got it. I sprayed the underside of the steel panel with undercoating and it made no noise at all

03-31-2017, 07:01 PM	#17
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Why not a full steel roof? SOunds about like jeep wranglers like 87-2006, plastic hard top sounds like your driving a plastic igloo cooler. soft top sounds like a tent going down the road... __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

03-31-2017, 10:16 PM	#18
Gold Digger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Arkansas & Alaska Posts: 645	Re: Why not a full steel roof? Back in 1968 and 9 I owned a 28 coupe that someone had put galvanized sheet metal roof in that was soldered all way around. Didn't leak a drop and I can't remember ever hearing any type of noise made from the roof. It didn't have any head liner if that makes a difference.