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Old 04-04-2019, 02:56 PM   #1
reddog565
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Default 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Running this 3 duece set up on an elderbrook aluminum manifold.the manifold has a vacuum Port between the front and a center carb. that I'm using for my distributor and brake booster. The issue I'm having is,I have to run my manual choke about halfway closed in order for the engine to accelerate. The carburetors were rebuilt. It has a new fuel pump with a regulator. It's getting at least 6 lb of fuel pressure. I'm running a vacuum advance total vacuum advance is 37°.so, any thoughts why I have to run with the choke halfway closed?
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

possible vac. leak. also , fuel pressure should be limited to about 2 1/2 to 3 psi with those carbs. just my opinion.
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Thanks for reply! I was running about 3 lb of pressure.then someone else said I wasn't running enough, causing a lean condition? so I turned it up to 6 pounds.and I'm pretty sure I don't have a vacuum leak I checked all the hoses the gaskets everything.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post
... the manifold has a vacuum Port between the front and a center carb. that I'm using for my distributor ...
It probably has nothing to do with your choke / fuel mixture problem (unless the diaphragm is blown) but I'm curious what distributor you're using.
The oem Y-block distributor advance is set up to work on ported vacuum from the carburetor. Modified engines may or may not work better with manifold vacuum for a '57+ style distributor, I don't know.
An original '54-'56 Loadomatic distributor would not be a good choice in any case.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-04-2019 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post
Running this 3 duece set up on an elderbrook aluminum manifold.the manifold has a vacuum Port between the front and a center carb. that I'm using for my distributor and brake booster. The issue I'm having is,I have to run my manual choke about halfway closed in order for the engine to accelerate. The carburetors were rebuilt. It has a new fuel pump with a regulator. It's getting at least 6 lb of fuel pressure. I'm running a vacuum advance total vacuum advance is 37°.so, any thoughts why I have to run with the choke halfway closed?
It is running too lean for sure! You need to verify that carbs are properly rebuilt: float level, float drop, jet size, the right power valve, ALL internal passages verified as being open and clear. Make some block off plates for the end carbs and run on the center one only and see how it runs. Do this with each carb.
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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Alaska Jim is correct. 2 1/2 to 3 psi is enough fuel pressure. 6 psi and up is asking for trouble.


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Old 04-04-2019, 07:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

What year carbs? If your running the original distributor I'm not sure that the vacuum setup you now have works the distributor correctly. If your using the 49 and up carbs, then you should set the vacuum up as original with the center carb.


Tell us more what your set up is - engine, distributor etc. We are just guessing what you have.
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Old 04-05-2019, 06:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Good replies! I'm running an MSD ready to run distributor with a vacuum advance. The three carburetors are original Ford script! The two outboards are stripped of all unnecessary hardware. Meaning power valves etc. The center carb is running a 52 jet and the two outboards are 49. I have good manifold vacuum at idle about 16 17 steady pounds. One thing I did notice,when I put my hand over the two outboard carbs one at a time it definitely is sucking a lot of air. When I rebuilt these carbs I see the throttle plates as tight as I could get them and all the gaskets
Are new. so I don't know what's going on.
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Old 04-05-2019, 11:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

did a little more investigating? I have a p.c.v.
valve it's tapped into the top of the block, close
to distrib. vacaum supplied from the port between
the carbs.the #a/c cv-7260? does anyone know
if this is a good #? and what years did it fit?
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

First, don't assume anything. Try blocking off the PCV valve. Remove both end carbs and make block off plates for the manifold to run on just the center carb and switch carbs around. If it still wants half choke, try a different carb (from a known good running engine if possible). Pop off the intake and check the gasket. Look for kinks in the fuel line. Disconnect the line at both ends and blow through it by mouth (this will give you a good idea if it is restricted inside-a blast from an air hose can fool you).
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Using an aerosol starting fluid, or a length of hose as a stethoscope, to hunt for suspected vacuum leaks will be less initial trouble than pulling the intake manif.

Some early ('54) intake manifolds and heads have smaller ports than the later versions. If they are mis-matched you could have a leak.
(early & late intake gasket examples in photo)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 54 vs 55+ intake gasket size c.jpg (27.7 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-07-2019 at 05:14 PM. Reason: add photo
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Using an aerosol starting fluid, or a length of hose as a stethoscope, to hunt for suspected vacuum leaks will be less initial trouble than pulling the intake manif.

Some early ('54) intake manifolds and heads have smaller ports than the later versions. If they are mis-matched you'll likely have a leak.
(early & late intake gasket examples in attached photo)
My bad! For some reason I had flathead on the brain.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I did a little checking on that PCV valve number#
CV-726C. Here it comes to be that valves from a 68 Corvette. Very rare! I see " ebayer entrepreneurs" selling NOS stock for $35 and up! Yikes!! I haven't had any time to work on it. What I can tell you guys is, I just rebuilt the motor so all the gaskets are new. And I can also tell you, this problem existed before I rebuild it.so, I'm kind of leaning toward a lean condition? Thanks for all the good replies keep them coming...

Last edited by reddog565; 04-06-2019 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Jim View Post
possible vac. leak. also , fuel pressure should be limited to about 2 1/2 to 3 psi with those carbs. just my opinion.
I dig your car!!!
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Old 04-06-2019, 09:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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... I have good manifold vacuum at idle about 16 17 steady pounds. ....
Steady is good. But 16 to 17 inches of vacuum might be a touch low(?) depending on which cam the engine has. A good vacuum reading with a stock cam would be close to 20, maybe a bit more.
.

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Old 04-06-2019, 11:30 AM   #16
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I got her up to 20 now. I guess since it's a rebuilt motor it's still sealing itself up. Anyways, tried all the suggestions! Nothing seems to be helping steel dealing with the choke that has to be run halfway closed? I'm open to any more suggestions?
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

reddog565, Thanks for the compliment on my car. Still thinking about your problem, but haven't thought of anything other than what has already been posted. I still think that if you can choke the eng. with your hand over the carb. opening with your hand a little and the eng. speed increases, or has a better smoother idle , that you have a vac. leak somewhere. do not rule out the possibility of the pcv valve being the culprit. find one for a Ford or Chevy eng. for close to the displacement of your eng. if you have a 292-312 one for a 292 chev. six, a 289/302 Ford, 283/327 Chev. should all work what make and size eng. do you have? what brand Intake manifold. some of the early intakes do not seal on the later Y-Block heads, and the Offenhauser 3x2 manifold is the worst for performance of them all. ( I do have one on my car, because that is what was on it when I bought it, and the others are non existent here in Alaska , and expensive else where+ the cost of shipping. ) Check out Ted Eaton's web site for flow testing of many manifolds and carbs, and a wealth of other info. Also check out John Mummert's site lots of good info there also. hope you get your problem sorted out keep us all up to date.---Jim
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I just had a thought, check your throttle shaft bushings on the carb's. if they are bad , they can be a source for vac. leaks
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Old 04-06-2019, 05:34 PM   #19
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I think we're on the same page? As you stated, I slowly put my hand over the center carb, regulating the airflow, the more I closed off the air the better it ran. I too am starting to be suspect of the PCV valve! As I stated it's the CV 7 60C. It is threaded directly into the top of the block.I'm having an extremely difficult time trying to locate one at a reasonable price. I'm even thinking of putting it a very short piece of pipe and using a piece of hose between the pipe and a double ended male PCV valve.but I'm also having a difficult time locating that. By the way, I did remove the valve and it is shaking. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly I think it's
Allowing oil to be sucked into the manifold and it's burning it. I would really appreciate if anybody could get me a good part number.these guys at the parts store they don't have a clue..
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Old 04-06-2019, 05:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

low and behold, after a long internet search, I found a
PCV VALVE- A/C 2142295 ON rock auto! hopefully this
will help somebody else out. BUT! I still don't know if this
will cure my bogging? but, one thing at a time...
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Old 04-06-2019, 05:50 PM   #21
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

NAPA is your best bet. Tell em you want the right one, even if they have to order it. At least then you can rule something out, if it does not cure it.
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska Jim View Post
... I still think that if you can choke the eng. with your hand over the carb. opening with your hand a little and the eng. speed increases, or has a better smoother idle , that you have a vac. leak somewhere. do not rule out the possibility of the pcv valve being the culprit. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post
... I too am starting to be suspect of the PCV valve! ... It is threaded directly into the top of the block. ...
The PCV valve is threaded into what? The location may or may not be a bad idea. Photos please.

Remove and plug all the vacuum connections on the engine before testing again, so you can rule them in or out as part of the problem. Maybe the brake booster has a blown diaphragm? Have you checked around the intake gaskets or for a cracked intake manifold?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg intake hole.jpg (54.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg intake hole, inside.jpg (42.2 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-06-2019 at 07:39 PM. Reason: add photos
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Old 04-07-2019, 03:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Thanks for the reply! For whatever reason I'm having a difficult time uploading my pictures they just won't load. Anyways the vacuum Port is tapped at the top of the block right by the distributor next to the valve cover pan. As far as intake gaskets are concerned, I just rebuilt this motor and they're new. As for the booster diaphragm, it is also new. So everything is new on this motor. But ,as I stated previously ,I had this problem before I rebuild it. I haven't had time to install my new PCV valve yet. So I'll let you guys know how that worked out...
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

So guys, having all kinds of issues LOL....
I'm trying to upload a picture of that PCV valve. I took it saved it in the file. I've tried to upload it, but when I do, it says upload failed! Anybody know what's going on with this?
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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So guys, having all kinds of issues LOL....
I'm trying to upload a picture of that PCV valve. I took it saved it in the file. I've tried to upload it, but when I do, it says upload failed! Anybody know what's going on with this?
When you hold your cursor over a photo just before you select it, a box will open with a few details about the photo. If the file 'Size' is 2mb or larger they won't upload.
I've been using "Paint", a basic photo editing software that was in this PC to 'reduce' the images before upload. (an annoying pita)
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:11 PM   #26
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Was looking at post # 22. And it caught my eye, you have a wire running through that, I'm assuming then, that would be a live vacuum port?
I'm using two bolts to hold my throttle bracket. Do you think I could be losing vacuum from those
Threaded bolt holes?
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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Was looking at post # 22. And it caught my eye, you have a wire running through that, I'm assuming then, that would be a live vacuum port?
I'm using two bolts to hold my throttle bracket. Do you think I could be losing vacuum from those
Threaded bolt holes?
Someone used too long of a bolt to fasten down the throttle bracket and broke thru into the intake runner. Then put a shorter bolt into the hole, it made a good vacuum leak.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

With 20" of idle vacuum, you do not have a vacuum leak ,at least not big enough to affect the mixture at part or full throttle. If you have not blocked off the end carbs, do so! Just cut a piece out of a soda can just big enough to cover the openings and bolt the carb back down. You don't even have to make bolt holes, just snug the carb with an extra gasket. If it still runs lean find or borrow a different carb. DO NOT ASSUME anything! Test everything. No shortcuts! (This is troubleshooting 101!)
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I tend to agree with 40Deluxe, if you have 20 in. of vac. at idle with steady needle on the gauge , a Vac. leak is unlikely, but, you do have a lean condition if you can still change the idle speed and quality by partly covering the top of the carb., or adding a bit of choke, as this effectively makes the idle mixture richer.
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I did block both end carburetors off. When I did that, the engine stumbled, got very angry! Did not want to run,and it started pulling oil into the exhaust causing a great deal of smoke! So I don't know what happened there... Going to install the new PCV valve tomorrow see what happens with that..


finally! got pictures resized!!!!
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File Type: jpg pcv 003.JPG (37.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg pcv 002.JPG (33.3 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by reddog565; 04-08-2019 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:13 AM   #31
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I did block both end carburetors off. When I did that, the engine stumbled, got very angry! Did not want to run,and it started pulling oil into the exhaust causing a great deal of smoke! So I don't know what happened there....
That makes no sense, the engine should idle & run smoothly on just the center carb.
There's not enough (or any) fuel getting thru it ???
.

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Old 04-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #32
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Hi guys. I installed a new PCV valve. Idols a lot smoother and better. But still dealing with the bogging problem. Sow I eliminated a vacuum leak. So it's down to not getting enough fuel. I'm going to have to take that center carburetor off and take a closer look at it. I'm already running a 52 jet on the center one. And 49 on the two outboards.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:42 AM   #33
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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Hi guys. I installed a new PCV valve. Idols a lot smoother and better. But still dealing with the bogging problem. Sow I eliminated a vacuum leak. So it's down to not getting enough fuel. I'm going to have to take that center carburetor off and take a closer look at it. I'm already running a 52 jet on the center one. And 49 on the two outboards.
If those carbs sat a long time, there could be dried crud in some internal passages. Just soaking in carb cleaner may not get that stuff out. I have had to use tag wire to run through some carbs to get that junk out.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:27 PM   #34
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I totally rebuilt the carbs myself, ran wires through all the holes.so I think Alaskan Jim was right to begin with it's a lean condition I just have to figure out what it is..
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

With the outer carbs blocked off the engine should idle & run on just the center carb. If it won't there's something wrong with that carb.
A sometimes overlooked problem is a clogged inlet filter, just inside the carb where the fuel line attaches, if those carbs have them, or maybe a stuck-shut float valve.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:13 AM   #36
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

still dealing with "bogging". it is absoutley a fuel "issue".
i'am running 52 jets in center carb. I want to try some
larger ones. my carbs are the "94 model". does any body
have some #54 jets & up? these must be 1/4" threads!
new ones cost about $5-6 each! if you have some good
used ones, private message me. I use pay-pal..
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:34 AM   #37
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I just bought two #55 Holley jets from a local speed shop (these places are disappearing) for $5 for both. BTW, all Holley jets are the same thread size.
Also, weak ignition can make an engine bog under load. Make sure you have a nice blue crisp spark that can jump 1/2" before you start wasting time and money.


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Old 04-10-2019, 01:22 PM   #38
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

on my 3x2 set up in my coupe, I am running 54 or 56 jets in the center carb. can't remember for sure which off hand , as I was playing around with it last summer and changing jets back and forth in all 3 carbs for a while , I have 51 or 52's in the outer carbs
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I always enjoy hearing from you! Lord knows I wasted enough money on this car.... Asfor the spark , it's an MSD ready to run distributor. And yes I'm using the vacuum advance. 38 degrees total advance. Talk to what I would call a reputable carburetor shop.they said after the mid-60s the thread size changed from quarter inch to 5/16? Anyways I only got 52 in the center 1 and 49 in the outboards. I guess I'll get it up a little bit go to 54 in center ,see what happens?I'm totally out of options, I tried all everybody suggestions nothing's working. Thanks for keeping in touch Jim..
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:36 PM   #40
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That's news to me. I've been doing all USA carburetors since I was 17 and never ran into two different main jet thread sizes on Holley carbs. They did change the numbering on the jets with 3 digits instead of two when the emission years started. I'm pretty sure that represented 100% jet flowing before carb assembly.
The guy at the carb shop may have been referring to Autolite/Motorcraft jet thread size (which is larger).


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Old 04-10-2019, 03:39 PM   #41
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reddog565, I would hate to tell you how much I have in my car. It cost me 4800.00 just to have it shipped to Alaska from New York state in an enclosed container. on a side note, I am originally from Pa. , I was born in Lancaster, my mom and dad and their family's are from that area. my dad was military , so we have lived just about everywhere. what kind of vehicle do you have and what size is the eng. give us a little info on it. unless I missed it in another post I do not know what you have.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:19 PM   #42
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I am retired. I was a self-employed truck driver for 45 years. My car is a 51 Ford F100 rat rod. It has a 272 Y block.I'm not that computer literate. I need to take some pictures of it and resize them and I'll send them to you when I get a chance.
Thanks for staying in touch....
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Last edited by reddog565; 04-10-2019 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:24 PM   #43
reddog565
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Hi sal. Thanks for joining the conversation! I believe you're correct when you say motorcraft has larger Jets. I think that's what this carburetor shop was referring to. He told me from the mid-60s on that they change the size of the threats. So anyways! You have any good leads on# 55 Jets. I don't want to cut into your source.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

The link below is about as cheap as you can get them. Also if you search EBAY for "Holley main jets 55" or just "Holley main jets" you will find a lot of varieties. A lot have free shipping.


Sal


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PACK-HOLL...UAAOSwKl5Zd3Uq
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Also, that is a very sweet rat rod ! Long live the Y-Block !


Sal
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

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Thanks sal! I don't know if you read about the issues I've been having with these carburetors?
But since you been doing them since your 17. what's your thought on my lean condition?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:16 PM   #47
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I really don't know why your engine is running lean if the center carb has #52 jets and you did install block off plates on the front and rear carbs, other than a vacuum leak which you've already looked for and couldn't find. Without being there, all I can say is if it were my engine, and I was starting from scratch, I would keep #52 jets in the center carb, and on the front and rear carbs use a power valve block off plug, and seat the two idle mixture screws. Then put about #55 jets in the front and rear carbs because of the blocked off power system. Also on the front and rear carbs you need to completely close the idle speed screw until the throttle plates are seated and sticking in the bores. Then turn the speed screws in until they just contact the throttle lever, then a wee bit more (less than a 1/16th of a turn, Just enough to keep the plates from sticking in the throttle bores. Also need to make sure there is some type of return spring for the front and rear carbs too. This is assuming you have progressive lnkage, which it looks like you have.


Sal

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Old 04-11-2019, 03:33 AM   #48
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Good reply sal..
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:46 AM   #49
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

I contacted that site on eBay there from Chicago area. He said those Jets fitting a 94 carburetor .
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Can you borrow a carb from someone that has a good running engine? If your engine still stutters and staggers with a known good carb, you will know to look elsewhere for the problem. In a pinch, any Ford V8 carb back to the thirties will work for a test.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:54 PM   #51
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Thanks for reply, 40 deluxe...
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:18 PM   #52
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Final results; I found the two outboard carburetors were sucking air. Even though I thought I had to throttle shafts completely closed
They weren't seated all the way allowing a vacuum to develop. I sent them off to get new throttle shafts. No more running with the choke halfway closed! Problem solved! Hopefully this will help one of you guys out ,if you run into this problem. Thanks for all the replies....
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:45 PM   #53
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Glad you found the problem and let us know. Now let us know how it runs when , you get the carbs back and the car running again.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:32 AM   #54
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Always good to hear from you Jim! Oh it's running, and with the y-block I rebuilt and the car is working properly. It's kind of scary fast for me.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

yeah, it does not take much horsepower to push a light car into the scary zone. good luck and have fun.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:32 PM   #56
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Glad you got 'er all fixed up !


Sal
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Old 04-19-2019, 07:37 PM   #57
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Default Re: 3duce set up Ford 94 carburetors

Good to hear from you sal!
Just letting you guys know,I'm going to be having a couple of Ford 94 carburetors that I'm rebuilding for sale. one is an 8B. The other is a 7rt. They will have new kits installed from vintage speed. They will be pretty much stock. So if you guys know anybody looking for one of these carbs let me know..
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