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12-20-2015, 09:20 AM | #1 |
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Location: Overland Park, Ks
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heating problem
I have always been a great fan of the flathead v8, my 53 Victoria is in excellent shape. everything new in the cooling system, but it still runs warmer than I think it should with ac, it will run on hot day around 210 degrees with ac. My question is would an overhead valve like a 1956 Mercury still have the same problems
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12-20-2015, 09:56 AM | #2 |
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Re: heating problem
Although flatheads were known for running hot it's not necessarily engine design that dictates operating temperature. Adding A/C adds heat to any engine due to the extra work the engine must do to run the compressor, plus the heat rejected from the condenser transfers to the radiator due to air flow and its proximity to the radiator. The hotter it is outside the more heat the system has to deal with. Are you running an electric fan or the stock 3 or 4 blade one? Or both? What is the opening temperature of your thermostats? If you're running 170 or 180 degree 'stats try 190 or 195. This may seem counter intuitive, but 'stats with lower opening temperatures will not regulate coolant temperature when it gets much over the 'stat's specification. The stats will be wide open all the time so the coolant doesn't spend enough time in the radiator before it returns to the engine. Also, when adding A/C be sure to seal all openings around the radiator and any holes in the core support. This will force more air through the condenser and radiator. And make the passenger compartment as air tight as you can and insulate the firewall, floors, doors and roof to reduce the heat load so the A/C doesn't have to work as hard.
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12-20-2015, 10:23 AM | #3 |
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Re: heating problem
My '50 Ford with a flathead V8 will run on the warm side in the worst of the Texas heat and pretty much mid band the rest of the time. No air conditioning on this car and everything Dobie says makes perfect sense. In normal weather (90° or less) and at normal speed limits, my engine temperature stays pretty much mid band. If running the engine at high speed for any significant distance, then the temperature does crowd the boiling point. I did run this car in the Big Bend Open Road Race this last April and pretty much found the engine temperature limits when running the car for 118 miles at basically wide open the whole distance. My car has 4.27 rear gears and overdrive.
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12-20-2015, 01:11 PM | #4 |
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Re: heating problem
Are you measuring the engine temp with an oem in-dash gauge or something else?
If an in-dash gauge is reading incorrectly you may not actually have a problem. Double check to see if the temp indicated is actually correct, or at least really close. You can probably borrow or buy a hand held infrared temp gun. (under $20) |
12-20-2015, 02:28 PM | #5 |
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Re: heating problem
at 90 deg ambient with air it runs 210 at 70mph in od using antifreeze it not suppose to boil until 245 deg. I use temp gauge on dash, plush one mechanical gauge, plus infrared temp gun. in the middle of head where the temp pickup for all three gauges reads the same, but checking the top of radiator it will measure 200 deg. I had an 17" electric fan with shroud which really worked great in the city, but on the highway it wouldnt cool very well, it would go way over 220. I finally put on a 6 bladed fan blade works great in city with the ac on and on the highway will stay around 210. I am using 160 deg thermostats. Dont you think an overhead valve would run much cooler?
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12-20-2015, 02:43 PM | #6 |
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Re: heating problem
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12-20-2015, 08:18 PM | #7 |
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Re: heating problem
How old are the water pumps? Just curious since you didn't mention it. Not that I'm sure new ones would be your cure.
Try the higher temperature t-stats, easy and cheap enough. AC probably adds a good 20-30 degrees to the overall operating temperature. |
12-21-2015, 05:50 AM | #8 |
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Re: heating problem
You stated that everything in the cooling system is new. Does that include the radiator. Some aftermarket radiators have so many fins close together that at speed air cannot flow through the radiator fast enough. You say that around town it cools enough, but on the road it overheats. Sounds like an air flow problem to me. John
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12-21-2015, 08:42 AM | #9 |
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Re: heating problem
190 degree thermostats..july hot runs all day at 185/195...accelerate to 70 mph which means more fuel...more fuel generates more heat..raise your right foot back to 60 mph ,,the temp will settle back to 185/190 degrees..these flat engines were to operate perfect at 50/55 mph on 2 lane roads....I have been running my flattie for over 20 years..with a/c....use your head ,,if your running 70 mph into the afternoon sun in july hot or texas sun or climbing Jellico,,7 lb pressure cap ,,temps can skyrocket to boiling 212,,however with extra pressure cap..212 isn't boiling.. raise your right foot ,I'm done
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12-21-2015, 09:27 AM | #10 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Overland Park, Ks
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Re: heating problem
I wasn't planning to change out the engine on my 53 Victoria, I was thinking of buying a 56 Merc, was wondering about heating with ac on 56 merc?
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12-21-2015, 03:50 PM | #11 |
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Location: Kent, WA. Tucson, AZ
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Re: heating problem
Ok, the 56 Merc, with a y block and adding a/c. Almost everything above applies to any engine, and Dobie covered it pretty well in his second post.
If you go over to y blocks forever and search "Greenbird56", you'll find a series of post on cooling. From restricting the w/p bypass, to Hayden fan clutches to fan blades. It's going to take some searching, and Greenbird is sometimes on here. His solution works in Tucson at 115 degrees, but I don't think he has a/c. But 'birds are much harder to cool than the full size cars. With the right shroud, fan, sealing, etc. a/c in a Merc shouldn't be a problem. My bird runs an aluminum radiator, full shroud, and electric fan. Small additional fan on the condenser. A/C setup from ClassicAutoAir. On a 90 degree Seattle day, in traffic, the main fan runs 90-120 seconds on, then off for 2-3 minutes. It doesn't get much hotter than that here, but given the run cycle, I'm probably good stopped to about 100 degrees. But I had to use all Greenbird and Dobies items to get there. Again, a full size car, with the motor clean (not rusted up in the water passages) should be doable. |
12-23-2015, 09:19 AM | #12 |
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Re: heating problem
Do you think louvers would help?
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12-23-2015, 09:34 AM | #13 |
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Re: heating problem
Try a hottet stat as proposed. Its inexpensive and not much work involved.
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12-24-2015, 03:24 PM | #14 |
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Location: Central Texas
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Re: heating problem
No.
In regards to your question regarding the overheads and heating, the Ford/Mercury Y-Block engines introduced in 1954 did not have the heating problems that the Flatheads were noted for. Factory air was supplied on some of those early overheads with simply a multi-bladed fan and a shroud being needed to aid in the cooling. Ted Eaton. |
12-25-2015, 07:56 AM | #15 |
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Re: heating problem
One of the problems with heat in the flathead is in their design. The exhaust ports pass through the block water passages, putting more heat into the water. John
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12-25-2015, 09:04 AM | #16 |
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Location: Overland Park, Ks
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Re: heating problem
Ted Eaton and John, this is reason I asked the question. It makes sense to be cooler on the way the engine is design.
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12-26-2015, 12:25 PM | #17 | |
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Re: heating problem
Quote:
__________________
" If spent as much time flossing My teeth as I do biting My fingernails, I'd have better teeth to bite My fingernails !" In the barn : 47 Indian Chief Roadmaster, 49 DeSoto Custom Sedan, 66 VW Type 1, 84 F150 4wd restomod. In the driveway : 2000 Windstar, 2006 Taurus. Vehicles owned :Not enough space here Favorites : 1955 & 1960 Fords |
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