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Old 09-16-2021, 11:48 PM   #1
waynet
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Default Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

Guy's, I am unfamiliar with these older Bendix self energizing brakes. Should I convert to boosted front disc brakes, on our 1948 Mercury M47 (Ford F1) pickup, or keep the older self energizing drum brakes? I cant seem to shake the "possible" drum brake fade from my head at the moment.

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Old 09-17-2021, 01:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

which ever way you go you will need to do a total system change front and rear as brakes are a balanced system [front and rear] you need to do the sums which often have hidden costs such as new tyres and wheels. Yes discs do have less fade but often dont work that well when there cold not totally familiar with your current brake system but something as simple as a remote booster [VH40/44] can be quite effective or even changing the lining material can change how your brakes preform. Brake fade is caused by linnings overheating how and why there are too many factors to go into here and can often depend on where you live ie live in hilly country your brakes work harder and longer than the wide open spaces find a brake specialist and talk to them it cant hurt .Also check to see if anyone has been in there before and changed something something as simple as changeing cylinder size as little as a 16th" has major effects and check all your flex lines if they have gone soft they will balloon and cause mass dramas and near impossible to diagnose [rule of thumb change every 10 years ]
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

ps me again! check with your local authorities changing brake systems can require you to totally reengineer the vehicle and cause dramas with getting the vehicle registered for road use here in Aus such a change would also remove any chance of historic plates
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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ps me again! check with your local authorities changing brake systems can require you to totally reengineer the vehicle and cause dramas with getting the vehicle registered for road use here in Aus such a change would also remove any chance of historic plates
Maybe stick with the original self energizing with softer pads, and a booster, do you think? Lots of steep hills where I live!
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

I'd say stick with what you have and make sure they are in good condition. After all, the brakes you have are used as an upgrade on earlier models. A booster won't make them work any better, just reduce the load you're feeling at the pedal. You need to drive carefully on those steep hills and make sure your gearbox will hold you in a low gear. Let the engine do the braking and use the brakes as little as possible.
How did people drive about in that area in the 1950s? On drum brakes 99.9% of the time I bet.
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Old 09-17-2021, 04:07 AM   #6
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softer material maybe not however booster and slightly harder material possibly the booster will reduce the pedal effort for the same brake pressure so in theory you should be able to generate higher pressure's increasing shoe to drum force which will allow you to use a harder material with a higher operating temp range so better long term braking DOWNSIDE; higher pressures will place considerable more strain on hydraulic hoses and cupseals so you will need to check the condition of everything not just bang a booster on
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

Make sure they are adjusted properly, too.

I know others have switched to discs in the front. I am sure someone will chime in later.
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Old 09-17-2021, 10:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

This 1954 truck has disc brakes on the front and drums on the rear.
It was a huge improvement. You could instantly feel the improved stopping ability..
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Old 09-17-2021, 10:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

Did a front disc conversion on my '51 Merc. over 15 years ago.
The '49-'51 Merc. brakes are virtually identical to pickup brakes.
This is just a peek at what is involved in just installing the discs and booster
Big improvement and no regrets.







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Old 09-17-2021, 02:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

You don't need a booster even if you go to disc brakes. I replaced the front brakes in my 54 Ford with 80 Granada discs without power booster and the brakes work fine. I doubt a 48 pickup is any heavier than my 54 Ford.


If your looking for a conversion kit, go to Engineered Components (ECI) in Connecticut as they have many conversion kits. I'm pretty sure they have a kit for a pickup using the stock wheels.
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

Your replies and advice are worthy thinking, please keep them coming.
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
Did a front disc conversion on my '51 Merc. over 15 years ago.
The '49-'51 Merc. brakes are virtually identical to pickup brakes.
This is just a peek at what is involved in just installing the discs and booster
Big improvement and no regrets.







What brand conversion kit did you use?
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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What brand conversion kit did you use?
Don,t remember but it was equivalent to this one on EBAY (but for Mercury).

You would also have to acquire a disc/drum master and booster (if wanted)
Also residual valve/s and proportioning valve.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/38384749370...8AAOSw4PxZ-1--
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Old 09-17-2021, 05:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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Guy's, I am unfamiliar with these older Bendix self energizing brakes. Should I convert to boosted front disc brakes, on our 1948 Mercury M47 (Ford F1) pickup, or keep the older self energizing drum brakes? I cant seem to shake the "possible" drum brake fade from my head at the moment.
I have been driving old Fords with Bendix brakes for close to 80 years, flat country, mountain country, all year around and I have NEVER experienced "brake fade". Never. These old Fords, if well maintained are very reliable and safe as Henry built "em. Add all this extra expensive stuff you guys are talking about and still bust a brake hose. Drive 'em like they were meant to be driven back in the day, and enjoy them. If you want disc brakes, drive some modern ChiCom rice burner. Jeeeezzzz. My 2
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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If you want disc brakes, drive some modern ChiCom rice burner. Jeeeezzzz. My 2
Ford started using disc brakes about 1965 and I doubt that they will ever go back.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

If keeping to the original braking system would it be recommended to replace the existing single feed master cylinder with a dual feed in case of a hose burst?
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

That's good hear that the original type are efficient and reliable.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

[QUOTE=Lawson Cox;2057602]I have been driving old Fords with Bendix brakes for close to 80 years, flat country, mountain country, all year around and I have NEVER experienced "brake fade". Never.

That's good to hear the original system is efficient and reliable.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

Disc brakes are the standard throughout the world. Now 4 wheel discs seems to have taken over.

I can remember my last everyday car that had all wheel shoe type brakes. 66 Fairlane 390 - Couldn't stop worth a damn at high speeds. Next car, 68 Torino 390, ordered front discs (I think an option at that time). Much better.


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Ford started using disc brakes about 1965 and I doubt that they will ever go back.
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Old 09-17-2021, 09:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

not denying that discs have taken over for several reasons cost being one reliability being another since they self adjust but again if they aint maintained as needed they aint worth s##t so our friend asked what was available and what was involved. In the end its up to him to do his own sums and workout what's what only he knows what result he wants and how deep his pockets are. As we are all aware you can sink mega dollars and get little to no improvement and lets face it brakes and steering generally dont give you a second chance
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

The original question was which is better. Disk brakes are better.
Is a dual master better than a single? Yes if it is a factory designed unit with all the built in extra travel available at the pedal to make the remaining circuit still work if one should fail. You probably wouldn't have that in a conversion of an existing application, especially one with pedals that go down to the floor.
What is your intended usage? That is probably the most relevant question. Just pootling around the local area? Or high speed runs on busy highways in rush hour.
If just pootling, then it may be ok to just stick with drums.
If multiple stops from high speed are envisaged then go with a power disk conversion.
Do you have a lot of experience driving this truck? Has it actually scared you? Are the brakes in good condition? Or are you worrying about a scenario that hasn't happened and may never happen if the working envelope of the vehicle is taken into account?

If it were an open wheel hot rod and looks were paramount, then sticking with drums is normally the obvious choice. But in a fully fendered pickup then a sympathetic conversion to disks would be unnoticeable and would probably be ok if done correctly. The main thing to consider is increasing the track width. A conversion that has minimal track width increase would be better.

You have the answers to the questions and should be able to make an informed decision.

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Old 09-18-2021, 03:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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not denying that discs have taken over for several reasons cost being one reliability being another since they self adjust
The rear Bendix drum brakes also self adjust, so in that factor they are equal.
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

I put disc brakes on my merc and there is a noticeable difference. My reasoning is simple. Do I value my car and do i want to destroy it by slamming into a Honda that has twice the braking ability than my car has? Cars and driving habits have changed in the past 70 years.
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:23 AM   #24
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

The brake debate! Somewhat akin to the oil debate. Dino vs synthetic vs a blend. Drums vs vs 4 wheel discs vs disc drum combination. The drum brakes on my 39 work fine and I wont consider changing them. Yes it takes a heavier foot as they are not vacuum boosted. Yes I have to think ahead and prepare to stop earlier and descend hills with their limitations in mind but its one of the reasons I like driving it. Back to a a more involved driving experience. I like the Armstrong steering, 100 hp, three speed on the floor etc.
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Old 09-18-2021, 08:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

I read all the comments on the "greatness" of drum brakes and my conclusion
is that drum brakes have their place on museum-pieces not driven in the real world. I like nostalgia too but there's really no feeling worse than when something won't stop. I've been in that situation and I prefer to never be along for that ride.
The issue is mainly friction material-related and the fact that the main players
in that business haven't really updated their offerings in friction materials used in brake shoes since the removal of asbestos from their toolbox.
Sure, there is Porterfield. I had them on my F1 for awhile. They're ok shoes. In a loaded vehicle application, they don't provide a huge improvement in repetitive stopping that you might want to see in heavy traffic or for elevation changes.
After 25 years of being involved in the automotive aftermarket working for ACDelco, Akebono Brake Corporation and Global West, I decided to design my own setup. This, after taking a close look at Wilwood and some of the other sellers of front disc brake kits.
I didn't want ridiculously huge front discs/calipers, bearing adapters and some strange mis-mash of parts. I did want to use my original 15" rims and not affect track width.
Having already switched to a dual reservoir drum master from a '68 Mustang, I merely removed the residual valve on the rear port and bolted on my front disc, using the original drum hubs. (master cylinder reservoir capacity is enough to handle the caliper piston's displacement)

No bearing adapters, uses original wheels, track width 1/4" less than factory and great stopping.
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:20 AM   #26
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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I think application of the vehicle is the issue. Having an old car with stock engine and local driving, the orginal brakes in good working order is more then adequate. However, up grading the power and speed, interstate driving, converting to a better braking system is a must.
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Old 09-18-2021, 10:53 AM   #27
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

The stock brakes in my '51 are just fine, thank you, I can lock 'em up any time I want to. Since there are no mountains (an few large hills) in Minnesota, I don't see any time I would have the need to it more than once in a row. I have to believe that it now comes down to tires.
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Old 09-18-2021, 11:15 AM   #28
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

Leave the orig. brakes alone, I have a 53 Ford F100, I restored 30 yrs ago with all NOS orig. Ford brakes and brake parts, i drive it all the time, it stops fine, I do not know why a lot of people want to change to disc or power brakes, they must have old worn out systems, I recently saw a poster someone made, It tells the true story, Henry Ford says I did not build these cars to put Chevrolet engines in.
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Old 09-18-2021, 11:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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I recently saw a poster someone made, It tells the true story, Henry Ford says I did not build these cars to put Chevrolet engines in.
Maybe Henry said it but at one point in time Henry did use GM parts.
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Old 09-18-2021, 11:35 AM   #30
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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The rear Bendix drum brakes also self adjust, so in that factor they are equal.
No self-adjusters until the early '60's, I believe those are F-100 brakes.

I have totally stock type brakes on my F-1. I've driven it cross-county on interstates much of the way, in heavy traffic at times, and in the mountains where 6 - 8% downgrades are common. Several panic stops. I've never had brake fade, and as Tubman says I can lock them up if I wanted to (with 235/75 tires too). The same brakes were factory well into the 60's on F-100's that were heavier.

In my lifetime, I've had 4 M/C's fail -- every one of them was a dual. Always seems to be the front circuit that fails, and having only rear brakes may be better than none, but not much.
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Old 09-18-2021, 11:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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No self-adjusters until the early '60's, I believe those are F-100 brakes.
My self adjusters are installed on a '51 Merc on which the brakes are virtually identical to F100 brakes.
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Old 09-18-2021, 12:13 PM   #32
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Maybe Henry said it but at one point in time Henry did use GM parts.
If you work on a lot of different cars and I mean actually fix stuff, not merely doing R&R "mechanical work," you rapidly find out that there's quite a bit of sharing between manufacturers.
This goes on to this day but it isn't quite as prevalent as it once was.
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

[QUOTE=Mart;2057726]The original question was which is better. Disk brakes are better.
Is a dual master better than a single? Yes if it is a factory designed unit with all the built in extra travel available at the pedal to make the remaining circuit still work if one should fail. You probably wouldn't have that in a conversion of an existing application, especially one with pedals that go down to the floor.
What is your intended usage? That is probably the most relevant question. Just pootling around the local area? Or high speed runs on busy highways in rush hour.

Great reply Mart.
Which braking system performs best is in relation to long down hill braking and urban "slam the brake on" driving. Going up hill is more controllable than going down hill. So are drum brakes reliable enough for more modern hilly road surfaces where the down hill speeds are higher than first gear gravel roads as in the early day's?
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

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My self adjusters are installed on a '51 Merc on which the brakes are virtually identical to F100 brakes.
I should have said no Ford Trucks used self-adjusters until the early 60's. With modern shoes and hardware they can be added to the original brakes.
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Old 09-18-2021, 04:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

One thing I have noticed where disk brakes excel over drums is after driving through deep water but we don't do that anymore. If your truck is stock and well maintained and driven as intended you shouldn't have much fade problem. If you do switch make sure you know what every component is exactly for replacements.
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