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Old 08-30-2021, 12:29 PM   #441
Floyd
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

The preheating to 900 degrees F is the required temp before brazing or more cracks will occur either immediately or later on due to the thermal stresses. The cooling down must be as slow as possible, 24 hours is the target.
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Old 08-30-2021, 12:35 PM   #442
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Ok I am ready to throw in the towel on this cracked block. Getting nowhere really fast on achieving any type of improvement stopping the leaks in the area where brazed. I am sure it pressure tested this thing would spray water!

Appreciate all the suggestions and comments. Several folks have noted to me that these B blocks are notorious for thin wall castings in this area compared to Model A blocks!

I dont give up easily on things like this.

Regards,
Chris
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Old 08-30-2021, 12:36 PM   #443
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

As Floyd noted, there is a reason that when I've had cast iron blocks welded - they were done inside a big furnace . . . where all the preheating was done. I'm sure some have done this work in a variety of ways . . but it is darn tough to do (to make a lasting repair) without the proper pre-heat and cool-down environments..

There are very few companies left that do that type of work (none in Columbus that I know of anymore). The last one in this area was 'Columbus Col-Weld . . . but they shutdown a couple years ago.
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Old 08-30-2021, 02:58 PM   #444
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Since the whole world is following this thread, and all involved are big fans of ole timey engines and machinery, I have included a few more notes as to cast iron and its repair. First -Cast iron can be repaired ,even rewelded back to essentially new.
Second- There is no magic involved, no computer controlled machines, no special material needed and no equipment needed that you can not cobble up yourself.
What you do need is great gas welding skills and more importantly, knowledge of the metallurgy of high carbon content iron ,i.e. the cast irons. You will then know that grey iron can be welded and "white " iron can not be. It all has to do with dealing with the carbon in solution and the iron-carbon diagram.
Since there is so much vintage machinery out there that is irreplaceable, learning how to save it is our job. Practice this and get good at it and help others.
The repair options: 1) pinning, -stitching; 2) brazing; 3) welding.
Brazing is a great option for areas not in the combustion chambers , intakes, brackets not under great loads ,etc. Easier to do because of lower heat required, but will probably never be leak free. For cooling channels in blocks, heads etc brazing is usually followed by a ceramic based block sealer and you have a forever solution.
Brazing or welding requires preheating and post cooling done exactly right or the process will fail and usually makes the problem worse or much worse or even un-repairable.
The materials required: fire bricks to build an igloo to house the part in and thermal blankets; A heating source to bring the part up to temp (slowly) i.e. natural gas blow torch .
For brazing, an appropriate brazing rod and flux and ox-acetylene torch.
For welding, an ox-acetylene torch and genuine cast iron rod or pieces of grey cast iron you have cut up. Do not use speciality rods made with nickel etc. You must use the parent material for this operation. For flux, use good old fashion Borax.
You should have all the materials you need in your shop.
Following the directions is the hard part. Not following them is failure, maybe today or maybe six months later, but always a failure (it cracked).
Preheating- 1300 degrees F for welding, 900 degrees F for brazing. Preheat time depends on size of part. A few hours for a 10 pound part, 24 to 48 hours for regular engine block. Cooling time will be about the same. It must cool slowly!!!
Electric welding always results in failure.
Pics included are more of diesel engine heads that all have been rewelded and remachined and returned to service All are successful and ready for millions of miles on the road. Note that the cylinder heads have a fill puddle of weld so as to not create a small hot spot. Big torch flame and the pre-heated part is already at 1300 degrees!
This is the only process approved by Cat, Detroit Diesel and Cummins .
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Old 08-30-2021, 03:04 PM   #445
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

There's a source in Detroit (dieselcastwelding.com) that does it (since 1936). I once had them fix a cracked '32 V8 block (freeze damage) that proved to be a permanent repair, but then survivors of those blocks aren't nearly as plentiful as four-cylinder blocks.
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Old 08-30-2021, 03:08 PM   #446
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A couple of more pics- Every head in the pic has been welded and remachined.
Gas welded with cast iron , preheated and cooled correctly
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:23 AM   #447
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Folks,
As Floyd and the world watch me make mistakes! The entire engine # 2 project goal was to see about getting this old truck running and moving again. So the block status.
Cleaned up the area where we have brazed it to a relativity flat surface again . Now that 98 % of the large openings are filled in I may try a epoxy coating over the face to seal the remaining leaks as a goober-ed up patch of sorts. Also giving this thin section a little more structure.

I did contact EMP about there Epoxy engine repair kit. Price for the kit is about $300.
It would probably work. It has been used in Military applications for years. Again surface prep is very important for good adhesion. Its a two part black epoxy with a fiber mesh layer added. Dont think I want to invest in that?? But would probably be the next correct thing to do it another fix was tried. Might be better than JB weld or Bondo! Although not rulling out JB weld yet either.

Maybe just old fashion Rradiator stop leak might work too Like from NAPA. They have some new stuff in a blue container that is supposed to be good. Cant remember the name? Helped some in Jims Doodle tug leaking radiator.

What about the world famous Flex Seal! It does about everything liquid sealing related !

Friend of mine sent me some info on material added to a hot running engine that might work to seal cracks from the inside too. Made for cast iron boiler repairs. That might be added if the engine would ever run again. Another option Hercules 30310-1
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hercules...kaAoWUEALw_wcB

Did add another 7/16 heilicol thread insert to the lower back driver side of the block where a bolt had been broken off.
I did talk to Snyders and they recommended the single lock adjustable valve tappets for getting the valves set properly with no machining required. May order a set of those?

Ok off to do something probably on wood for a while.
Tractor pulling last night was fun but we did not do good on that track and competition was stout!

Regards,
Chris
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:56 AM   #448
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Thanks to Floyd for all the information provided on how to repair a cast iron casting.
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Old 08-31-2021, 12:33 PM   #449
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Zeke,
I agree! Some really good information here on repairs to cast iron items!
Knowing the right thing to do and doing it right, or not, that is the theme. The old truck in this thread will not be restored by me so some of the items and features may not get the right attention.
I would like this block to not leak enough I could drive it a little.

Did order a set of the adjustable tappets. So I will learn a little about setting the valves in a model B too!

Did a little more brazing in a area that was leaking. JB Weld may be the product applied to the exterior?

Regards,
Chris
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:38 PM   #450
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Folks,
I did get some JB weld materials and cleaned and coated the exterior of the Model B block this afternoon.






Will it work and for how long? Well your guess is as good as mine. We did get the majority of the damaged closed back up with the brazing.

Removed the one head stud that has a helicoil and applied Permatex #2. This drill had entered the water jacket area.



Also added the helicoil insert for the upper bell housing intermediate casting to bolt to. This had been tapped to 1/2-13 but seemed to clean up nice with the heilicoil tap for a 7/16 bolt.


Regards,
Chris
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Old 08-31-2021, 09:22 PM   #451
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

The J B weld epoxy will work fine for sealing up the small fissures between the braze and the cast iron for the water jackets. It is used by many people on some high performance engines that have pock marked surfaces due to corrosion, thus allowing coolant to leak.
You should be fine.
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Old 08-31-2021, 10:09 PM   #452
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

I've had a cast iron hit/miss motor from the 20's tig welded before and a lot have been. It worked well. It is somewhat different in the iron content or so I was told. A flat motor is very complex, a hit miss just had a hopper and a one lung sleeve cylinder.
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Old 08-31-2021, 10:11 PM   #453
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

What's there to lose, certainly worth a try. I repaired a pin leak on an oil pan 10 yrs ago with jb, a great product. Might get you down the road for a bit or more. Just don't tell anyone. Wish you would have said something before so I could have bought stock in jb before. (that's a joke). It's a great product.

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Old 09-01-2021, 06:08 AM   #454
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Floyd, Tinker, Folks,
Thanks for the words of promise. I am sure a lot of folks are shaking there heads about now!

****This was a test! Only a test! No small children were injured during this test! If this was your block I would not recommend this test!*****

There I feel better now!

I do understand about not telling anyone about this whole thing! Might be a little too late??

So now we can slowly continue on with the evaluation process. I will lay the block back down. Fill with water and watch as I put up some hemlock on the East wall in the shop.
The big south wall remains to be completed then the windows to be trimmed out in our Ash lumber.

So plenty to stay busy at. Need to make a punch list for the items to put the 32 back together. Hope I have most of the items? I did order that short braided gas line from ThirdGen. They are so easy to work with! Great folks!

New old Rad should arrive today too. That was a biggy, as the rad out of the truck looks very marginal, But it did hold water! So it will be set aside.

Hope things are good in Ford land!
Regards,
Chris
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Old 09-01-2021, 10:11 AM   #455
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Break time,
Checked the block for leaks under room temp conditions. Look like the JB weld has plugged the holes at this time.




Am I proud of the fix? Well not really. This thread provides the good the bad and the ugly on a old Ford truck project. And maybe we learn and help some others with there projects too.
Being a prototype engine, this is what I am learning on also. Appreciate the support and positive comments. Helps me move forward.
Big Brown truck brought gifts from afar! Time to go to work on a old Ford engine!
Dang, I hope I have enough parts to build a engine and a half!

Regards,
Chris
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Old 09-01-2021, 10:41 AM   #456
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

I have gained a lot of faith in JB Weld over the years. Seeing this reminded me that I had done a "temporary" repair of a C2 Corvette coupe vent window regulator about 10 years ago. Someone had attempted an earlier repair that didn't last. I had to fill some holes with JB Weld and then re-drill and re-tap them so I could reassemble the regulator. Everything worked out fine, and I installed it and went on a search for a replacement regulator. Corvette coupe vent window regulators are quite scarce, and I never did find one. Now that I see what you are doing, I remembered that repair.

I use the car occasionally and always open the vent window when I drive it. I have just realized that it is STILL holding and working fine. I think you'll be just fine!
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Old 09-01-2021, 10:34 PM   #457
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Tubman, Ford Folks,
Even if this doesnt work I will always think it should have! Seems like a pretty good band-aid so far.

Adjustable tappets installed. Old solid lifter in center:





These are very stiff single adjusters recommended by Joe at Snyder's. Used this set up to adjust them prior to install. got me in the ballpark at about 2.500 tall. I like these! Set lash to .013-.014. That should give it a chance to breath correctly if it ever runs! Found a thin 1/2 inch wrench for the tappet and a 7-16 for the adjuster.


So the large divot on the cam gear is for the timing pin to engage correct? The small dot is the timing mark for alignment with the crank gear? Correct? Just learning and want to get he crank and cam in correct engagement position.

Also the new radiator looks like just the ticket for the 32! Thanks to a Ford Barn member for passing along the word I needed one. And the 32 cap fits perfect! Another piece of the puzzle!




Can some one give me a clue on rear main seals in these 4 bangers? I see a cork gasket that looks like it would go over the rear main and the pan would engage it??
Since I have never done one of these I need some guidance/ instructions on crank seals??

I did attempt to hive a swarm of Honey bees tonight. Always fun! More wood working also, plus mowed the lawn with the Ford Jubilee!

Regards,
Chris
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:24 AM   #458
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Chris,


Please see #406 on page 21 of this thread regarding the rear main seal.


"Divot" sounds a little big for the round detent in the timing gear for the pin to locate 9 1/2 degrees before TDC of the #1 cylinder (page 6-12 in the book for the whole procedure).
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Old 09-02-2021, 05:42 AM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Chris,


Please see #406 on page 21 of this thread regarding the rear main seal.


"Divot" sounds a little big for the round detent in the timing gear for the pin to locate 9 1/2 degrees before TDC of the #1 cylinder (page 6-12 in the book for the whole procedure).
David,
After I wrote that I thought of your books! Thanks again. I will check that information.
Ok I went back to that post in the thread. Its that simple?! Well I guess I can figure that out.
Usually rear mains are a little more complicated than that. My Allis-Chalmers have several components that need to be fit up and installed.
I need to go get the snout from the original crank for the front of this crank. Or get the replacement from Snyder's.
Regards,
Chris
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Old 09-02-2021, 10:12 AM   #460
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Here is a good article on installing the pan gaskets and crank seal.
https://lesmodela.files.wordpress.co...et-article.pdf
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