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Old 06-07-2020, 07:03 PM   #1
Brett Ritter
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Default Rear End Questions

Hello,
I’m new to A’s & have 2 questions about the rear end.

1. Is there an internal bearing in the housing our near the wheel, or is everything supported on that end by the bearing that runs on the outside of the housing in the hub?

2. If that is the case and my seals are shot, can I pull the housing sides and just replace the seals, or am I in for a full rebuild?

Thank you,
Brett


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Old 06-07-2020, 07:21 PM   #2
J Franklin
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

The bearing in the hub is the support. There is a seal in the hub and a seal inside the axle housings. The housings can be removed separately but it might be time to at least remove and inspect the whole rear end assembly at this time.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:54 PM   #3
Brett Ritter
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Thank you, I agree. I was just being hopeful.

What are the odds that a 90 year old rear ended could be worn out?[emoji6]

Also, does anyone sell rebuilt units with core exchange?


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Old 06-07-2020, 08:19 PM   #4
jb-ob
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

- What issues are you having now ??

- Usually opening up a Model A rear for 'simply' gasket & seals leads to much bigger issues.

- Be realistic, Just where are you planning on driving ? Only local or travel out of state for National Meets ?

While you consider, keep driving as rear end re-building is a better winter 'sport'.
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:25 PM   #5
Brett Ritter
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb-ob View Post
- What issues are you having now ??

- Usually opening up a Model A rear for 'simply' gasket & seals leads to much bigger issues.

- Be realistic, Just where are you planning on driving ? Only local or travel out of state for National Meets ?

While you consider, keep driving as rear end re-building is a better winter 'sport'.

That was why I was wondering if I could replace the seals and limp through the summer. I just sent off my hubs to have cast iron drums & I don’t want to risk oil in the new brakes since the current seals are shot.
I just picked this Tudor up a few weeks ago & will be working on it as we enjoy it, just like I did with my 27T. We just cruise local, I’m not ready for any long hauls for a while.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:51 PM   #6
J Franklin
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

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The hub seals only keep the wheel bearing grease in the hub, and you will replace those when you reinstall the hub. The inner seal stops gear oil running down the housings. They may or may not do much depending if the axle is worn severely where the lip rides. If you want to limp just drain out about 1/2 the oil from the banjo. also some people overuse the zerks inboard of the hubs on the axle housings and over grease the bearing forcing the grease beyond the hub seal.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:17 PM   #7
Bob C
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Here's a picture of the two seals.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg seal 03.jpeg (61.1 KB, 76 views)
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:25 PM   #8
larrys40
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Brett
I have rebuilt hundreds of them... first of all he inner seals even if shot aren’t going to hurt anything in the meantime. Your rear axle lube typically doesn’t travel up that far, and if it did it would have to come out the taper to the inside hub .
If you are doing hubs pack he outer bearings well with a high fiber type grease with new seals correctly installed sharp side inward .

Lots of questions in above posts . How far are you driving... etc. most axles if not had a previous quality rebuild attention need proper rebuilding. I wouldn’t even think of replacing seals and putting it back together without the thorough rebuild. But as I said the inner seals are to keep the grease that is pumped into the housing fitting directed to the hub as opposed to the inner housing.
The best way to lube them is to remove and pack manually anyway.

Comprehensive rear axle rebuild includes ratio/use evaluation , all parts cleaned and inspected and new bearings, seals, preloads set properly on all bearings .
Housing races/hubs , etc all inspected and evaluated for use and restoration.
My suggestion is to see if there is anyone in our local Model A club that is an experienced driveline restorer to get some help. If not there are folks like myself who do these services if you cant’ or don’t want to tackle it yourself. There is a skill and process to it.
I am in St. Louis area if you need a rebuilder.
I advertise in the restorer and Model A news.
Larry shepard

Last edited by larrys40; 06-07-2020 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:33 PM   #9
Brett Ritter
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Thank you all very much. This has been helpful.

Again, does anyone sell reconditioned rears and you send your core?

Thanks again,
Brett
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:38 PM   #10
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Remember that the paper gaskets between the center section and the bells are shims that need to be replaced with ones of the same thickness assuming the wear pattern on the gears is good. Measure them when you take the rear end apart.

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Old 06-08-2020, 12:13 AM   #11
Brett Ritter
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Ok, thanks
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:18 AM   #12
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

KISS (keep it simple stu_id) Ck the fluid in the diff, do NOT overfill, replace the seals in the hubs when you get them back and enjoy the summer. JMO
Paul in CT
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:15 AM   #13
larrys40
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Ritter View Post
Thank you all very much. This has been helpful.

Again, does anyone sell reconditioned rears and you send your core?

Thanks again,
Brett
No I know if no one who has rebuilts on hand.
They are done on an as needed basis.
I tore one down last week for a guy and he was present when I tore it down. His friend said to run it. It had water and a little old lube in it but was a ball of rust inside .

Larry

Last edited by larrys40; 06-08-2020 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:26 AM   #14
ryanheacox
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb-ob View Post
While you consider, keep driving as rear end re-building is a better winter 'sport'.

It is if you have a heated shop


Kidding aside though, what makes you think you need to rebuild the rear end in your car? Just bad seals?


I need to change the hub races on the ends of the trumpets on mine and the more I think about it, the more I feel I should probably just bite the bullet and rebuild the whole rear end. It's worth doing the job right.
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:41 AM   #15
jb-ob
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Default Re: Rear End Questions

"Doing the job right"

Compared to what, doing the job wrong ?
I'm beginning to re think the 'job' as what do I expect 'it' to do when I'm done? Local trips to the post office & Home Depot or that great cross country road trip should help decide how deep one needs to go.

I'm just grumpy being up to my elbows in a rear end project which while not 'perfect', ran quietly before.......
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