The Ford Barn

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 01:54 PM

I just rebuilt a BW R-10. I put it in the car, started the car and no reverse. It appears I have 1, 2 and 3rd gear when I let the clutch out. I pulled the shifter cover off, and manually put the tranny in reverse. Started the car, let the clutch out and the transmission is moving, but the car is not. I had to put rubber bands on the sprag clutch to install it. Is it possible that those rubber bands are preventing reverse. I did notice that the shift rail does move with the OD lever. I can see the rail come into the main transmission. Stumped

flatheadmurre · 09-17-2019, 02:04 PM

You aren´t missing the the overdrive lockout pieces...when you put reverse in they lockout the overdrive...if not there you get this kind of issue.

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 02:06 PM

Could you explain that more. Not sure what that is.

flatheadmurre · 09-17-2019, 02:11 PM

If i remember right there is a rod activated when reverse is engaged going back to the overdrive part locking it out.
If you pull the overdrive lockout cable does it reverse ?

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 02:15 PM

Does not matter if OD cable is in or out, no reverse. I can see the shift rail come into the main tranny body and move out when using the od cable.

flatheadmurre · 09-17-2019, 02:29 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

If the lockout isn´t working it will freewheel when you try to reverse...so start by investigating if the OD lockout works.

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 02:39 PM

I don't know what the OD lockout is. Is that the rail that goes into the main body

40cpe · 09-17-2019, 03:00 PM

See section II of the attached manual. The sun gear is attached to the lock-out rod by a slot in the sun gear. If the part that connects the sun gear to the lock out rod isn't in the slot on the sun gear, the lock out rod can't move the sun gear to lock the transmission for reverse. Also, make sure the side cover you put on the transmission has a tab on the reverse shift arm to engage reverse lockout.
http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/...riveManual.pdf

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 03:08 PM

OK, I know I have the lockout rod in the slot on the sungear. The sungear slides into the planetary gear.
I'm confused on the the side cover where you put on the transmission has a tab on the reverse shift arm to engage reverse lockout. I don't know what this is.

flatheadmurre · 09-17-2019, 03:09 PM

#14 is moving the gear into direct drive if something there is not correctly asembled you get this kind of issues.

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 03:15 PM

OK, 14 is the shift rail. I'm pretty sure I have that in correct. The slot is in the sungear. I have the spring at the back end of the rail, it does go through the pawl, it does move with #15 because I can see it in the front tranny. Could #10 be the problem. I had to put rubber bands over the rollers to get them in. Will I have reverse with the rubber bands on?

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 03:18 PM

For reverse, should the rail be to the front of the tranny or back of the tranny?

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 03:26 PM

I'm thinking that the OD lever is out, that means the sun gear is to the front of the tranny and not in the planetary gear. My problem has to be that the sungear is not connecting to something in the front of the tranny

flatheadmurre · 09-17-2019, 03:44 PM

Trying to remember...
Can #15 be turned 180 degrees wrong and limit movement ??
Next is if the paw that engages overdrive is limiting the rods movement( so you can´t pull direct while engaged)...could it have been turned 180 ?
Was a whiile since i was inside a R-10...someone else may chime in.

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 03:52 PM

#15 as I remember would only move the rail if inserted one way. I know my rail is moving. For what it's worth I took many pics of the pawl and where it was when I took it apart. I'm pretty sure it is in correct because it goes through the pawl.
I'm looking at the diagram and I don't understand how power gets to the back of the od with the sungear to the front. What is making 18 turn?

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 04:06 PM

I'm thinking that when the sungear is to the front of the tranny 10 makes it freewheel if rollers are in slots, or drive when rollers are wedged to 18. If I have a rubber band on rollers, it is freewheeling. Do you think the rubber bands are my problem?

40cpe · 09-17-2019, 05:01 PM

The rollers would freewheel anyway because the shaft is turning backwards in reverse. The car wouldn't move forward if the rollers were not functioning. The sun gear locks the transmission by moving backwards on the splined shaft that is driven from the main transmission. Look at the position of the sun gear in the two illustrations in section II on pages 5 & 6.

Also, something on the reverse lever in the side cover has to push the rod (#14) back when the transmission is put in reverse gear. I don't know if the side cover from a standard non-overdrive has the mechanism or not.

rotorwrench · 09-17-2019, 06:41 PM

The normal lock out for reverse is performed inside the transmission gear section. The 1st reverse shift arm mechanism actuates an arm inside there that pushes against the shift rail where it protrudes into the front gear section.

The lock out cable will also actuate the lock out lever that pushes the rail back in the overdrive section so it will do the same thing.

You can also have a situation where the overdrive shift solenoid will not disengage below 23 MPH like its supposed to. This is due to an electrical difficulty that must be corrected. If it won't drop out of OD, serious damage can be done if a person shifts the transmission into reverse while it's still in overdrive due to the lock up that will happen. A person can turn the ignition key off and it should drop out of OD as soon as the electrical power is killed. If you turn the switch off & back on and the solenoid clicks then there is a short somewhere in the system. There is a procedure to follow to troubleshoot for where the electrical problem may be. A person can shut the switch off then pull the lock out cable so the car can be driven until the problem is corrected.

whb52ford · 09-17-2019, 08:39 PM

Really trying to figure this out. Thanks for your help.

I now see that when the rail shows in the front transmission the car will be in overdrive. When trying to engage reverse the reverse fork will try to push back the reverse gear, but can't because the rail is blocking the fork.

I'm looking at page 5 & 6. If I'm reading that right #8 sungear would be away from 5 blocker ring with no overdrive on. The sungear would turn.

Does the blocker ring #5 rotate 360 degrees with the bearing on the other side of#4 adapter plate? What I don't understand is when going to overdrive the #8 sungear would be moved forward into the blocker ring #5. If the blocker ring #5 doesn't rotate 360 degrees with the bearing, would the sungear come into the blocker ring, and become stationary? If the blocker ring does not move 360 degrees, what is the paul doing. I see that when the paul #11 is engaged or extended, it looks like the blocker ring can't move.

whb52ford · 09-18-2019, 06:01 AM

This is what I know

Side cover is off. Reverse gear activated. The side cover does have a block to push the rail #14 back when reverse is engaged. Rail pushed back so sungear should be in planetary gear. Solenoid removed so the pawl is not pushed in.
Still no reverse.

I'm sure I put the rail into the slot on the sungear. #15 can be installed 180 degrees off, but I believe I have it in the right way because the rail is moving. When I pull the OD cable out, the part of the rail 14 in the front tranny goes back flat against the housing, same as putting it in reverse the side cover reverse pushes the rail back.

So what do I do next?

Also, I just can't figure out what and how 5 works. What is it doing?

09-17-2019, 02:04 PM	#2
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: No reverse BW R-10 You aren´t missing the the overdrive lockout pieces...when you put reverse in they lockout the overdrive...if not there you get this kind of issue.

09-17-2019, 02:06 PM	#3
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 Could you explain that more. Not sure what that is.

09-17-2019, 02:29 PM	#6
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: No reverse BW R-10 Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If the lockout isn´t working it will freewheel when you try to reverse...so start by investigating if the OD lockout works.

09-17-2019, 02:39 PM	#7
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 I don't know what the OD lockout is. Is that the rail that goes into the main body

09-17-2019, 03:08 PM	#9
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 OK, I know I have the lockout rod in the slot on the sungear. The sungear slides into the planetary gear. I'm confused on the the side cover where you put on the transmission has a tab on the reverse shift arm to engage reverse lockout. I don't know what this is.

09-17-2019, 01:54 PM	#1
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	No reverse BW R-10 I just rebuilt a BW R-10. I put it in the car, started the car and no reverse. It appears I have 1, 2 and 3rd gear when I let the clutch out. I pulled the shifter cover off, and manually put the tranny in reverse. Started the car, let the clutch out and the transmission is moving, but the car is not. I had to put rubber bands on the sprag clutch to install it. Is it possible that those rubber bands are preventing reverse. I did notice that the shift rail does move with the OD lever. I can see the rail come into the main transmission. Stumped

09-17-2019, 02:11 PM	#4
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: No reverse BW R-10 If i remember right there is a rod activated when reverse is engaged going back to the overdrive part locking it out. If you pull the overdrive lockout cable does it reverse ?

09-17-2019, 02:15 PM	#5
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 Does not matter if OD cable is in or out, no reverse. I can see the shift rail come into the main tranny body and move out when using the od cable.

09-17-2019, 03:00 PM	#8
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: No reverse BW R-10 See section II of the attached manual. The sun gear is attached to the lock-out rod by a slot in the sun gear. If the part that connects the sun gear to the lock out rod isn't in the slot on the sun gear, the lock out rod can't move the sun gear to lock the transmission for reverse. Also, make sure the side cover you put on the transmission has a tab on the reverse shift arm to engage reverse lockout. http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/...riveManual.pdf

09-17-2019, 03:15 PM	#11
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 OK, 14 is the shift rail. I'm pretty sure I have that in correct. The slot is in the sungear. I have the spring at the back end of the rail, it does go through the pawl, it does move with #15 because I can see it in the front tranny. Could #10 be the problem. I had to put rubber bands over the rollers to get them in. Will I have reverse with the rubber bands on?

09-17-2019, 03:18 PM	#12
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 For reverse, should the rail be to the front of the tranny or back of the tranny?

09-17-2019, 03:26 PM	#13
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 I'm thinking that the OD lever is out, that means the sun gear is to the front of the tranny and not in the planetary gear. My problem has to be that the sungear is not connecting to something in the front of the tranny

09-17-2019, 03:44 PM	#14
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: No reverse BW R-10 Trying to remember... Can #15 be turned 180 degrees wrong and limit movement ?? Next is if the paw that engages overdrive is limiting the rods movement( so you can´t pull direct while engaged)...could it have been turned 180 ? Was a whiile since i was inside a R-10...someone else may chime in.

09-17-2019, 03:52 PM	#15
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 #15 as I remember would only move the rail if inserted one way. I know my rail is moving. For what it's worth I took many pics of the pawl and where it was when I took it apart. I'm pretty sure it is in correct because it goes through the pawl. I'm looking at the diagram and I don't understand how power gets to the back of the od with the sungear to the front. What is making 18 turn?

09-17-2019, 04:06 PM	#16
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 I'm thinking that when the sungear is to the front of the tranny 10 makes it freewheel if rollers are in slots, or drive when rollers are wedged to 18. If I have a rubber band on rollers, it is freewheeling. Do you think the rubber bands are my problem?

09-17-2019, 05:01 PM	#17
40cpe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Star, MS Posts: 4,024	Re: No reverse BW R-10 The rollers would freewheel anyway because the shaft is turning backwards in reverse. The car wouldn't move forward if the rollers were not functioning. The sun gear locks the transmission by moving backwards on the splined shaft that is driven from the main transmission. Look at the position of the sun gear in the two illustrations in section II on pages 5 & 6. Also, something on the reverse lever in the side cover has to push the rod (#14) back when the transmission is put in reverse gear. I don't know if the side cover from a standard non-overdrive has the mechanism or not.

09-17-2019, 06:41 PM	#18
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: No reverse BW R-10 The normal lock out for reverse is performed inside the transmission gear section. The 1st reverse shift arm mechanism actuates an arm inside there that pushes against the shift rail where it protrudes into the front gear section. The lock out cable will also actuate the lock out lever that pushes the rail back in the overdrive section so it will do the same thing. You can also have a situation where the overdrive shift solenoid will not disengage below 23 MPH like its supposed to. This is due to an electrical difficulty that must be corrected. If it won't drop out of OD, serious damage can be done if a person shifts the transmission into reverse while it's still in overdrive due to the lock up that will happen. A person can turn the ignition key off and it should drop out of OD as soon as the electrical power is killed. If you turn the switch off & back on and the solenoid clicks then there is a short somewhere in the system. There is a procedure to follow to troubleshoot for where the electrical problem may be. A person can shut the switch off then pull the lock out cable so the car can be driven until the problem is corrected.

09-17-2019, 08:39 PM	#19
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 Really trying to figure this out. Thanks for your help. I now see that when the rail shows in the front transmission the car will be in overdrive. When trying to engage reverse the reverse fork will try to push back the reverse gear, but can't because the rail is blocking the fork. I'm looking at page 5 & 6. If I'm reading that right #8 sungear would be away from 5 blocker ring with no overdrive on. The sungear would turn. Does the blocker ring #5 rotate 360 degrees with the bearing on the other side of#4 adapter plate? What I don't understand is when going to overdrive the #8 sungear would be moved forward into the blocker ring #5. If the blocker ring #5 doesn't rotate 360 degrees with the bearing, would the sungear come into the blocker ring, and become stationary? If the blocker ring does not move 360 degrees, what is the paul doing. I see that when the paul #11 is engaged or extended, it looks like the blocker ring can't move.

09-18-2019, 06:01 AM	#20
whb52ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ocala, FL 34481 Posts: 235	Re: No reverse BW R-10 This is what I know Side cover is off. Reverse gear activated. The side cover does have a block to push the rail #14 back when reverse is engaged. Rail pushed back so sungear should be in planetary gear. Solenoid removed so the pawl is not pushed in. Still no reverse. I'm sure I put the rail into the slot on the sungear. #15 can be installed 180 degrees off, but I believe I have it in the right way because the rail is moving. When I pull the OD cable out, the part of the rail 14 in the front tranny goes back flat against the housing, same as putting it in reverse the side cover reverse pushes the rail back. So what do I do next? Also, I just can't figure out what and how 5 works. What is it doing?