Rear Seal off size

[PC/SR]

I have bought two of the aluminum rear "seals" from 2 different suppliers and both are smaller in the radius than stock seal. One result is that the inside crankshaft flange hits the inside "ridge" of the seal. The seal ridge will have to be ground down. Also, the flange part that slides into the groove in the block is to thick. My babbitt guy would not put it into the block until it was filed down for a snug fit, rather than forcing it in, because he was afraid the extra pressure might snap off the cast iron into which it fits. I hope this description makes sense. He also heard that someone made a "million" of these and that is what the suppliers are getting and selling. Both were made in Argentina. Anyone else have this problem? Anyone know where to get one that is the proper size? My advice at this point is keep your stock ones and reuse them.
PS. Just measured it, and the distance across the inside ridge of the seal is .045 less than the inside ridge of the rear main cap it is supposed to line up with. Nor does the outside of the seal fill completely the groove in the block. The thing is just smaller in diameter.

[1931 flamingo]

Have you tried contacting the "suppliers"??
Paul in CT

[columbiA]

Years ago,I bought an Argentine 7-tooth worm& sector,head gasket & water outlet & non of it was even useable.Now when I order parts,I ask-where are they made?Some off-shore stuff is at least useable,but those parts were junk.

[James Rogers]

I have never used any of the new ones or the ones from Argentina but I do have several. Most or the ones I have from offshore are steel and fit but I don't like the Argentinian ones because of the look. I'll try some of them tomorrow and see how they fit and report back.

[PC/SR]

James:Thanks for double checking this. I don't have any old ones around to compare. Check out the distance across the top of the "U" for the inside flanges and how they line up with the cap flanges. I took a rotary burr to the inside flange and made it clear the crankshaft flange. Also please check the thickness of the flange that slides into the block. I filed that down so it fits in with light tapping with a plastic hammer. I look forward to seeing what you find. FYI, the ones I have have Argentina stamped clearly on them. Pat

[SteveB31]

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We have original ones if you need any $7.50 each
Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center

[PC/SR]

Thanks Steve B31. Will call in the AM. Look forward to James's inspection. Might help alert other FB members.

[James Rogers]

I got out all the Argentenian seals I could locate (5) and several originals. All the seals fit except 1, a steel Argentenian that had been driven in the block so hard it was mushroomed on one side.It also was too small in the diameter that fits around the thrust ring. I did find one that had been run either, it didn't fit the thrust ring or the bearings were very worn since, the top of the crest was wallowed out. I suspect the former. All in all, the seals fit pretty good but I don't use them because they are not original. If the seal fits all except for the radius around the thrust, that can be cut when cutting the rear thrust in the babbitt simply by running the thrust cutter out enough to match it to the corresponding part in the cap. If it won't fit the block, you will have to file it till it is a thumb push fit. I just have so many originals, I never have to use repos.

[PC/SR]

Thanks for the larger sample. I guess I got the bad ones. They can be fixed easy enough, but I went ahead a got one from Berts.

[darrylkmc]

"We have original ones if you need any $7.50 each
Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center"

Steve,

Question, when you say "Original Ones", Model A Rear Main Seal, are these Used original or Unused original?

Darryl in Fairbanks

[darrylkmc]

Well I guess that maybe I should have asked the previous question a different way.

Are the original Model A Rear Main Seals referred to in this thread Original, Good Condition, Previously Used Seals?

The reason for my question is that, here, there is some speculation that if the "Seal" is not replaced with a new one that it can cause the rear main to leak.

I am investigating an engine that I built about a year ago, which has developed an oil leak. I reused the original seal, which appeared to me to be in excellent condition. I did not want to use the Argentine seal that I had after comparing it to the "Original"

Darryl in Fairbanks

[SteveB31]

used originals.

[James Rogers]

Used originals in good shape will not cause a leak. You must have a different problem.

[darrylkmc]

Thank you both Steve and James,

I have always used good originals myself and I agree that there is another underlying problem which is causing the loss of oil. I am going to pull the engine out and examine it and find out what the real story is.

Thanks again,

Darryl In Fairbanks

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

I have bought two of the aluminum rear "seals" from 2 different suppliers and both are smaller in the radius than stock seal. One result is that the inside crankshaft flange hits the inside "ridge" of the seal. The seal ridge will have to be ground down. Also, the flange part that slides into the groove in the block is to thick. My babbitt guy would not put it into the block until it was filed down for a snug fit, rather than forcing it in, because he was afraid the extra pressure might snap off the cast iron into which it fits. I hope this description makes sense. He also heard that someone made a "million" of these and that is what the suppliers are getting and selling. Both were made in Argentina. Anyone else have this problem? Anyone know where to get one that is the proper size? My advice at this point is keep your stock ones and reuse them.
PS. Just measured it, and the distance across the inside ridge of the seal is .045 less than the inside ridge of the rear main cap it is supposed to line up with. Nor does the outside of the seal fill completely the groove in the block. The thing is just smaller in diameter.

Mr. P.C., I have used the Argentina Aluminum slingers since they came out, the other kind does not work for me. Many of the Originals are wore because as the crank wears, the crank sinks closer to the block, and the crank wears the slinger, so in putting the crank back where it belongs in the block, as in moving it back out, when the block is align bored, there will be a wider gap for oil to go out the rear Main.

It takes me about 10 minutes to fit one, and that is counting a Nap in between.

No, they do not fit with out filing, but that way you can get them to fit the way they should. You take the, and I am going to call it a seal, and tap it in place very lightly, and then tap it out again. on the part that goes in the block, on the crank flange side, and it is on a taper, you will see a scuff mark made by the block, and you file that off, and repeat the process intil the ends of the seal are flush with the block. Then put some R.T.V. in the block Groove, and set the seal. I normally bolt the rear main cap down, with out shims to keep the seal in place until the next morning. Clean up excess R.T.V.

Now, if you find that your crank hits the seal, then you can blame the Guy that align bored your mains, as the crank is off center, along with the Shims. Herm.

[PC/SR]

Herm: Thanks for the hints. My Argentine seals are just smaller in diameter than the original. They do not fit all the way out in the block groove, and the crank thrust face flange was hitting the ends of the inner flange on the seal. The crank thrust flange did not fit into that first seal groove. I filed it to fit the block groove, and took a rotary burr to the inner flange and it now does not hit the flange on the crank, but I want to see what the original from Berts looks like when it get here. It has been awhile since I took the old one out and I just dont remember the relative positions of the crank flange and seal or the clearances. Thanks again. Pat