V8 60 king pin lock bolts

[johnboy]

Does anyone have any pictures of the V8 60 axle king pin lock bolts. Apparently they are different than the standard Ford king pin lock bolt? Who supplies or has them?

Any help would be appreciated

[V8COOPMAN]

Here ya go....definitely different than the ones for the I-beams. Don't have a clue where you could find any. DD

[Kube]

Originally Posted by johnboy

Does anyone have any pictures of the V8 60 axle king pin lock bolts. Apparently they are different than the standard Ford king pin lock bolt? Who supplies or has them?

Any help would be appreciated

They are different if your 60HP car was equipped with a tube axle. The photo that Coopman was nice enough to include are the pins required for the tube axle. And yes, they are SCARCE.
All "I-Beam" axles, whether in a 60, 85 or 95 HP equipped car, used the same bolts.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Kube

They are different if your 60HP car was equipped with a tube axle. The photo that Coopman was nice enough to include are the pins required for the tube axle. And yes, they are SCARCE.
All "I-Beam" axles, whether in a 60, 85 or 95 HP equipped car, used the same bolts.

Kube makes a couple of important points......The lock pins pictured are used ONLY on what is generally referred to (but not necessarily CORRECTLY) as a "V8-60HP Tube Axle". Two points to be noted...the "tube axles" WERE NOT installed in ALL V8-60 HP equipped cars.

Secondly, SOME 85 and 95 HP cars (1937-1940) WERE equipped with the tubular axles.

To be clear.....the lock pins pictured above were only used on the TUBULAR axles......not the I-beam axles. DD

[alchemy]

Can you show the other side of those lock pins? I'd like to know if they had a groove in the side of the shaft like a normal lock pin. If not, what presses against the kingpin tightly?

If there is no groove, and they are just straight shafts, I'd think a resourceful machinist could replicate something from a pair of bolts. Maybe just need to weld a knob onto the heads?

[rich b]

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Just being curious; did the original tube axle kingpins have a half round notch like the early "A"s or the slot like I-beam kingpins.


My tube axle has 9/16" holes and was used with regular lock pins, sure it was modified sometime in the past.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by alchemy

Can you show the other side of those lock pins? I'd like to know if they had a groove in the side of the shaft like a normal lock pin. If not, what presses against the kingpin tightly?

If there is no groove, and they are just straight shafts, I'd think a resourceful machinist could replicate something from a pair of bolts. Maybe just need to weld a knob onto the heads?

alchemy ...... These pins are a round cross section.....NO grooves like the I-beam pins. The shank diameter is 0.463", or about 15/32".....kind of an oddball bolt size. I took four nice pictures this morning and tried to upload 'em here. They were too big, and I can't re-size 'em. Send me a PM with your e-mail if you can upload them here.......I'll send 'em your way.

Rich B ..........The slot in the king pins is the regular old three-sided notch. The round section of the pin interferes perfectly with that notch to hold it snugly. Yes, the pins could be home-brewed by the right guy.

I'll post all of the dimensions if anyone wants them. DD

[Trey]

Please post dimensions or pm them to me!!!!

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Trey

Please post dimensions or pm them to me!!!!

OK guys, here are the dimensions. If there are any others I've neglected to note, let me know.

Overall length: 3.212"
Total shank length below hex (including threads): 2.063"
Total thread length (threads ONLY): 0.651"
Shank diameter (NOT tapered): 0.463"
Stub length (exposed knob-like part above hex): 0.933"
Stub diameter (tapers down FROM hex): 0.548" MAJOR to 0.538" MINOR (not visually noticeable)
Width (thickness) of hex surfaces: 5/32"-major // 1/8"-minor
Hex size (actual): 0.682".....for 11/16" wrench
Thread diameter (actual): 0.433"......(7/16-20 thread)
Transition radius from STUB to hex: Approx. 1/4" radius

One other note.....these pins insert from the REAR side of axle, where-as the I-beam pins insert from the front. That's because the STUB is built-in to these pins, where-as the stub surface for the I-beam pins is actually the acorn-shaped nut that threads onto those pins.

[V8COOPMAN]

OK folks, I've managed to get your pics up for you. Cute little buggers, ain't they? DD

[Pete]

These are easily made on a home lathe but it would be wise to make them from SAE4140 rather than mild steel or screw stock (Ledloy). These act as spindle stops and some people are heavy handed on the steering wheel.

[alchemy]

Interesting. So basically the lock bolts will lock the kingpin from spinning, but not push it sideways to prevent "rocking". I wonder why Ford went with this method in this application? The regular wedge pin method seems superior to me.

Thanks for all those dimensions, as it will make it easy for all us tube axle owners to replicate our missing lock bolts.

[Brent]

I've been wanting to get one so I could have my machine shop guy replicate a bunch of them. Anyone care to be a donor? I'll get the original back to you and a new set.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Brent

I've been wanting to get one so I could have my machine shop guy replicate a bunch of them. Anyone care to be a donor? I'll get the original back to you and a new set.

V8COOPMAN supplied all of the dimensions. Any half way decent machinist can work from that. You really do not need a "sample".

[Atwater Mike]

Originally Posted by alchemy

Interesting. So basically the lock bolts will lock the kingpin from spinning, but not push it sideways to prevent "rocking". I wonder why Ford went with this method in this application? The regular wedge pin method seems superior to me.

Thanks for all those dimensions, as it will make it easy for all us tube axle owners to replicate our missing lock bolts.

Well! IF my tube axles were bored to use the 'wedge' type keepers, it would explain why Sid has seen them both ways, and why mine are bored 'large'.

[mramc1]

Here is proof that not all 60 hp cars had the tube. My mid-'37 60 hp sedan has the I-beam.

[mrtexas]

How about posting a pic of a tube axle?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

How about posting a pic of a tube axle?

This is a tube axle that I obtained from under a very stock '39 Standard coupe with a V-8 60. DD

[Tudor]

Where can I get some lock bolts for a v8-60 axle? The regular one wont fit

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tudor

Where can I get some lock bolts for a v8-60 axle? The regular one wont fit

They are made out of "UNOBTAINIUM"....more rare than chicken teeth. You can have a machinest make you a pair from the dimensions I supplied above in Post #9, referencing my pics in post #10. One last idea...PM FordBarn member "barnfind08". He carries some really obscure and hard to find NOS parts.


Those things measure something near 15/32" diameter. Yup, a really oddball size, but with a little creativity, you could relatively easily fashion something useable by turning down a couple of pieces on a lathe. DD

[Terry,OH]

There is one for sale on Ebay

[V8COOPMAN]

Hey Terry....By chance, do you have an item number? I can't find it. DD

[Terry,OH]

I do not have the number nor can I find the ad any more. Have you checked with Southside Obsolete?

[cas3]

is this it? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SPINDLE...1928-47-FORD-T

[Terry,OH]

Yes item:
233415808648
Slightly different in appearance on the stop.

[cas3]

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well i'll be darned, that link worked last night, and now it says error.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Yes item:
233415808648
Slightly different in appearance on the stop.

Seems like the application listed for this part is overly wide; I've only seen the round lock pins in early Model A's and the tube axles.

Personally, I would drill the axle and use normal lock and king pins, since beside the round lock pins, you would also have to find king pins with a round notch.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by rich b

Seems like the application listed for this part is overly wide; I've only seen the round lock pins in early Model A's and the tube axles.

Personally, I would drill the axle and use normal lock and king pins, since beside the round lock pins, you would also have to find king pins with a round notch.

Rich....I'd be careful about drilling an expensive TUBE axle to use the "normal" lock pins. Without going out there and digging-out my tube axle to measure, I believe a tube axle is thicker than an I-beam front to rear where the pins go. And in the case of the king pin notch, the normal notch with the squared-off corners fits the round V8-60 pin perfectly. The king pin won't rotate, nor will it move up or down. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

I just came across this ad by FordBarn member "Hairycanary" making fairly close-looking lock pins. His ad is dated January of this year....FWIW, it might not hurt to send him a PM. Click the link below! Ask the guy to verify that the shank is 0.463" in diameter. DD


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=king+pin+lock

[johnboy]

Originally Posted by Brent

I've been wanting to get one so I could have my machine shop guy replicate a bunch of them. Anyone care to be a donor? I'll get the original back to you and a new set.

Did you ever get any of the v8 60 king pin locks made? I would like to order a couple . $? Thanks John

[jebbesen05]

Here is a drawing I made up off an original pin.

http://https://photos.app.goo.gl/Dsjg1nqYyDPVw7xe8

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by jebbesen05

Here is a drawing I made up off an original pin.

http://https://photos.app.goo.gl/5rrjRGsWyLTmbi8e6

Jeb....That is a very NICE drawing. It is virtually spot-on with the dimensions I noted up in post #9 of this thread (repeated below). DD
_____________________________


Overall length: 3.212"

Total shank length below hex (including threads): 2.063"

Total thread length (threads ONLY): 0.651"

Shank diameter (NOT tapered): 0.463"

Stub length (exposed knob-like part above hex): 0.933"

Stub diameter (tapers down FROM hex): 0.548" MAJOR to 0.538" MINOR (not visually noticeable)

Width (thickness) of hex surfaces: 5/32"-major // 1/8"-minor

Hex size (actual): 0.682".....for 11/16" wrench

Thread diameter (actual): 0.433"......(7/16-20 thread)

Transition radius from STUB to hex: Approx. 1/4" radius

[jebbesen05]

Thanks. I'd measured my pin with a caliper. Checked the diameter with a mic and came up with .463 also. Changed the drawing to reflect that. I figured a couple guys had asked for a picture. Wanted to make one up for my future reference anyway.

[jebbesen05]

Link to corrected drawing.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Dsjg1nqYyDPVw7xe8

[RB]

Will need to address the lock pin issue if I decide to put my nos 37 tube axle to use, while I don't have any readily available king pins available to complete or check the fit I did remove a pair of 39 beam axle lock pins from a donor axle & they appear to fit perfectly, uncertain if in fact the same would be true with king pins in place.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by RB

Will need to address the lock pin issue if I decide to put my nos 37 tube axle to use, while I don't have any readily available king pins available to complete or check the fit I did remove a pair of 39 beam axle lock pins from a donor axle & they appear to fit perfectly, uncertain if in fact the same would be true with king pins in place.

If the 9/16" lock pins fit; they are the ones to use, and the notch on normal '37-'41 kingpins will be in the right place.

Since your axle is NOS; maybe it's a sign that Ford possibly changed the lock pin design at some point.

That may account for all the 60 axles with 9/16" holes and could indicate that they were born that way instead of being modified at some point during kingpin replacement.

Something to think about, anyway.

[Pete]

Some info about stock 37 tube axles.
If you plan on racing with a sanctioned race organization like drags or vintage circle, you will have to have the open ends of the axle welded in.

[RB]

As mentioned in my previous post (dirt car) the beam axle lock pins fit perfectly I'm also using nos 37-39 Spindles with bushings intact, still lacking king pins however wondering if any after market will fit bushings as is or require honing to size......... Also curious to know if anyone has used the so called upgraded but pricey needle bearing type & what the end result opinion might be.