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Old 03-18-2020, 09:54 AM   #1
woofa.express
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Default replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Help requested please.

I am wanting to substitute steel wheels for my wire wheels on my 1930 Roadster.
Why you may well ask? To buy tyres for the original 17 inch wheels is expensive. Our AUD is very low and the exchange rate will cost the tyres at 250 to 400 AUD. Freight from USA is also a killer. So that is the reason; purely economics.
What will fit? Is anyone currently using them or has in the past?
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Old 03-18-2020, 10:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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Originally Posted by woofa.express View Post
Help requested please.

I am wanting to substitute steel wheels for my wire wheels on my 1930 Roadster.
Why you may well ask? To buy tyres for the original 17 inch wheels is expensive. Our AUD is very low and the exchange rate will cost the tyres at 250 to 400 AUD. Freight from USA is also a killer. So that is the reason; purely economics.
What will fit? Is anyone currently using them or has in the past?
Maybe measurements on original export vehicles were different but stateside, a 1930 Roadster originally came with 19" wheels and not 17".

In the states, a mid 1970s Ford pick-ups (-amongst a few others) used a 5 on 5½" lug pattern that used a 15" tire. Since I am unfamiliar with what is available down under, all I can suggest is look for something local to your area that uses that same lug pattern.
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Old 03-18-2020, 10:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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Originally Posted by woofa.express View Post
Help requested please.

I am wanting to substitute steel wheels for my wire wheels on my 1930 Roadster.
Why you may well ask? To buy tyres for the original 17 inch wheels is expensive. Our AUD is very low and the exchange rate will cost the tyres at 250 to 400 AUD. Freight from USA is also a killer. So that is the reason; purely economics.
What will fit? Is anyone currently using them or has in the past?
wheels from a 2001 Chevy tracker or a Suzuki samurai bolt directly on with no modification , I have used these this no issues. I have pictures but cant upload for some reason , I can send them to you by email if you want?
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Old 03-18-2020, 12:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Several cars & trucks had the 5 on 51/2" bolt pattern, some Chrysler products & Jeeps, for instance. The problem is the A's have a step in the brake drum, most wheels are flat where they contact the drum. If you don't allow for this the wheels are not supported correctly and are likely to crack. wheel adapters are available for this, or you can fabricate a ring to replicate the A drum. Ford's 1940-48 are 16", Mercury & Lincoln '49-??? are 15". Some are wider than others.
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Old 03-18-2020, 12:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

A modern steel/ aluminum wheel conversion kit might be a great idea for the parts vendors to offer. Include wheels and adapters to allow for a modern radial tire.
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brierley View Post
Several cars & trucks had the 5 on 51/2" bolt pattern, some Chrysler products & Jeeps, for instance. The problem is the A's have a step in the brake drum, most wheels are flat where they contact the drum. If you don't allow for this the wheels are not supported correctly and are likely to crack. wheel adapters are available for this, or you can fabricate a ring to replicate the A drum. Ford's 1940-48 are 16", Mercury & Lincoln '49-??? are 15". Some are wider than others.
that is false, In the case of tracker and Suzuki wheels they fit and perform flawlessly.
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Old 03-18-2020, 03:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

yes Brent you are correct. 19 inch wheels. how silly of me. cheers, gary
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Old 03-18-2020, 05:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Here is an illustration of what Jim is talking about in Post #4. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=1#post1286293

Be sure to read it, worst case the wheel may fall off.

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Old 03-18-2020, 06:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

B6D9DDCC-455C-426A-98A6-2E60A2DBEE52.jpg. these wheels from 2001 chev tracker, fit flush , the large centre hole in rim permits rim to mount flat/flush with drum. believe it or not.
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Old 03-18-2020, 06:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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Attachment 424729. these wheels from 2001 chev tracker, fit flush , the large centre hole in rim permits rim to mount flat/flush with drum. believe it or not.

Most solid wheels with the correct bolt pattern do not have a center hole large enough to fit over the raised ring present on Model A hubs without interference. Adapters used to be available to raise the rest of the hub/drum surface to that of the inner ring. Do these Chevy wheels have a large enough hole, or have you enlarged it?


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Old 03-18-2020, 07:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Autotrader says:
"Although the Samurai is dead to the U.S. market, it lives on elsewhere in the world under names such as the Sierra, the Katana and the Jimny. Because Suzuki pulled the Samurai from the States in 1995, we missed out on the vehicle's first major update, including coil springs and a better interior. Suzuki still makes the Jimny to this day -- and while the current version dates from 1998, it's still a tough-as-nails mini off-roader. You can buy one in Japan, Australia and South America... but not here."

I was looking at a new hail damaged Jimney recently. That's the hail after the fires ... before the pandemic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs1P_wbGnA4
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Old 03-18-2020, 09:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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Originally Posted by Randy in ca View Post
Most solid wheels with the correct bolt pattern do not have a center hole large enough to fit over the raised ring present on Model A hubs without interference. Adapters used to be available to raise the rest of the hub/drum surface to that of the inner ring. Do these Chevy wheels have a large enough hole, or have you enlarged it?


-
yes the rim I am using fits exactly outside that rim, no adapters,
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:00 AM   #13
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

im running steel all around . got them new from Les Schaub . nice straight wheels , fit perfect .
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:29 AM   #14
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Canadian,
I zoomed into your picture but could not make out the tire size. Are these 15 or 16" rims? Do you happen to know the rim with and backspacing?
Thanks,
Mike
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

canadian, so maybe my post was actually true! I've been playing with performance A's since 1956, and I have learned a thing or two.
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Old 03-19-2020, 05:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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Canadian,
I zoomed into your picture but could not make out the tire size. Are these 15 or 16" rims? Do you happen to know the rim with and backspacing?
Thanks,
Mike
15 inch, P205/70R/15. Not sure on rim width or backspacing. I needed rims for storage and after trying several these were suggested from a Face Book Model A site. I am well aware of the drum design with raised ridge, these wheels have a large centre by design. these fit flush . I offered this as a suggestion to a member who was looking for alternative , these are not for the purist . these rims are from a Canadian Chevrolet tracker, exact same as Suzuki Samurai , 2001. all the other 5 x5.5 rims I tried would not clear centre and were not touching drum. and again this was supposed to try and help someone out, if they didn't fit safely I wouldn't suggest.
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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canadian, so maybe my post was actually true! I've been playing with performance A's since 1956, and I have learned a thing or two.
No you are spreading false information, what was your result when you tried a 2001 Chev Tracker rim ? 5 stud , 5.5 lug spacing? So now in your book of knowledge since 56 you can add that... Canadian Banned.
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brierley View Post
Several cars & trucks had the 5 on 51/2" bolt pattern, some Chrysler products & Jeeps, for instance. The problem is the A's have a step in the brake drum, most wheels are flat where they contact the drum. If you don't allow for this the wheels are not supported correctly and are likely to crack. wheel adapters are available for this, or you can fabricate a ring to replicate the A drum. Ford's 1940-48 are 16", Mercury & Lincoln '49-??? are 15". Some are wider than others.
I've read this several times and looked at the picture. Which bit is false?
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Old 03-19-2020, 07:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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I've read this several times and looked at the picture. Which bit is false?
if this is directed to me, it is stated by Jim who has been hands on since 1956 that you must use a spacer or ring to mount a 5.5 wheel, and nothing will work unless there is a spacer. false.
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brierley View Post
Several cars & trucks had the 5 on 51/2" bolt pattern, some Chrysler products & Jeeps, for instance. The problem is the A's have a step in the brake drum, most wheels are flat where they contact the drum. If you don't allow for this the wheels are not supported correctly and are likely to crack. wheel adapters are available for this, or you can fabricate a ring to replicate the A drum. Ford's 1940-48 are 16", Mercury & Lincoln '49-??? are 15". Some are wider than others.



Not trying to take sides but it plainly says "most wheels". I don't see where it says "all wheels"... just saying...


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Old 03-19-2020, 08:41 PM   #21
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Not trying to take sides but it plainly says "most wheels". I don't see where it says "all wheels"... just saying...


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Terry, I am just suggesting for member who was asking for suggestions , after trying dodge, ford, jeep wheels I came up with rims suggested from another site, I was only offering a simple cheap solution. it is well know about the Model Hub. I am using a proven direct fit wheel which a fellow Model A Owner shared. my final post on this, I dont want to be Banned , I need the information shared here because I dont know everything and enjoy sharing what I have learned.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Jim was talking about another type wheel, like a 40-46 ford. He was not referring to your type wheels. Try reading again before you bash some one. Good luck with your type wheels.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:19 PM   #23
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Oh well.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Sorry about that guys. I took care of him. Cary on cordially.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:24 PM   #25
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Thanks Ryan.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:32 PM   #26
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Well with all that was said I learned alot about alternative wheels both with and without spacers. I have noticed some cracking in my wheels and was looking for cheaper alternatives.
I suspect wider wheels and tires would also help with braking. You guys using wider tires, is there a big difference in braking?
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Old 03-19-2020, 10:04 PM   #27
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Well with all that was said I learned alot about alternative wheels both with and without spacers. I have noticed some cracking in my wheels and was looking for cheaper alternatives.
I suspect wider wheels and tires would also help with braking. You guys using wider tires, is there a big difference in braking?
I think there’s enough of a difference from standard 19” wheels/tires to 16/17” wheels to justify the cost.
I’ve swapped on two different cars.
The ride is better, the braking is only slightly noticeably better, but better.
Just my opinion, but I also prefer the look.
Here’s my Tudor with some 17”s.
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Old 03-19-2020, 10:21 PM   #28
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I think there’s enough of a difference from standard 19” wheels/tires to 16/17” wheels to justify the cost.
I’ve swapped on two different cars.
The ride is better, the braking is only slightly noticeably better, but better.
Just my opinion, but I also prefer the look.
Here’s my Tudor with some 17”s.
I forgot about the ride difference. I just put new radial tires on last year. I should have asked questions about the cracks before I spent that kind of money. I have been reading in other threads where some think radial tires cause cracking. I did my research on tires but not the rims.
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Old 03-20-2020, 01:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

The talk of adaptors for the wheels is academic. They are banned here but I guess that is only if you are caught. The insurance company would use it to deny a claim. Being an insurance company, they will use anything to avoid a patout.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Those that can be used to mount later solid wheels having the same 5 on 5-1/2" bolt pattern onto Model A hubs aren't really adapters as such, basically just spacers. They space the entire mounting surface of the Model A hub to be flush with the raised inner ring. At one time these were commonly sold by vendors, but I don't believe anymore. The pictured ones were custom made.


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Old 03-20-2020, 09:29 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxo View Post
Well with all that was said I learned alot about alternative wheels both with and without spacers. I have noticed some cracking in my wheels and was looking for cheaper alternatives.
I suspect wider wheels and tires would also help with braking. You guys using wider tires, is there a big difference in braking?
I run 16s ply, fairly large/wide tires on my Truck and have noticed.


Ride is stiffer. More effort required to turn at low speed and parking. The tires I have are fairly hard composition and being quite large actually skid sooner under very hard braking. Not a lot of weight on a large contact patch area.


A different tire would probably help, but have to wait for these to wear out, and I personally like the "look".
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:19 PM   #32
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

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I forgot about the ride difference. I just put new radial tires on last year. I should have asked questions about the cracks before I spent that kind of money. I have been reading in other threads where some think radial tires cause cracking. I did my research on tires but not the rims.
Can you direct us to where you read this, perhaps a link to it? I have not heard of this before and there are plenty on here that are running radials. I don't have radials now but was thinking about getting some when/if my tires ever wear out. Thanks.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

I could not find any one thread with a good argument on both sides of the subject. I got my info from multiple threads. The disagreement was on the mechanics of the bia's vs radial tires and how the pressure was different with radial tires on the rim.
I found only the guys who have not tried the radial tires to question this. I went with the radials and the way they handle won me over. Smoother ride, no tracking issues with grooves in the road, handles railroad tracks and potholes just fine.
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Old 03-21-2020, 09:59 AM   #34
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

I always figured that if radials were better on modern vehicles , they would also be better for the model A .
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

I found only the guys who have not tried the radial tires to question this.

The above is from Roxo. I believe that is true with many things regarding Model A's, probably others as well.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:07 AM   #36
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

What You Need to Know About
Mounting Radial Tires on Classic Vehicle Rims
Here is a PDF file
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:33 AM   #37
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

I have used Coker 16" radials on my Tudor for 27,000 miles. I am on set 2 now due to tire age. I use 35 Ford wire wheels which fit Model A hubs.. You must have good non rusted out wheels. Never had any cracks.

On my AV8 roadster I use original 1940 Ford steel wheels with no cracking from radial tires. They need a flat drum mount as mentioned for A hubs.

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Old 03-22-2020, 08:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Tidbit of info, not sure if true - have been told multiple times that larger tires were used on the A during WW2 years since finding larger tires was easier to find due to the shortages/war effort.
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:30 AM   #39
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I have a new set of Coker radials that I have not mounted yet. I have Kelsey bent spoke wheels in really good condition that they are going on. I think condition of the wheel is the main factor (I hope) as to cracking. I have had several folks who do a lot of touring really praise the radial and their handling. I guess I'll find out soon.


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Old 03-22-2020, 09:36 AM   #40
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

I have not heard of or read were someone has said they had a rim crack or fail in anyway do to radial tires. If anyone has Please let us know. I know a lot of model A's are running around with radials today.
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Old 03-22-2020, 12:02 PM   #41
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Default Re: replace wheels with steel wheels. help please.

Quote:
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What You Need to Know About
Mounting Radial Tires on Classic Vehicle Rims
Here is a PDF file
Good article, thanks for sharing.
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