Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2020, 02:06 PM   #21
KiWinUS
Senior Member
 
KiWinUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here
Posts: 2,219
Default Re: head stud removal

0 or 1
KiWinUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 02:56 PM   #22
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 6,898
Default Re: head stud removal

I only tried the gas axe method once and made a right mess. I'm not saying the method is no good, as Kiwi is able to make it work successfully. It just didn't work when I tried it.
I prefer to try and save the studs if possible, so I tend to "worry them out" as stated above. The last motor I did, they all came out, with hardly a problem. Only about 6 or so were a bit more stubborn and responded to two or three heat cycles with the oxy acetylene. They all came out ok in the end. I do find some tapping helps, and also making the first attempt at moving a tightening movement seems to be a good move.

The most important thing to remember is that all motors may behave differently so what works for one may not work on another.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-18-2020, 03:58 PM   #23
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 7,007
Default Re: head stud removal

With the price of a set of ARP head studs being what it is, "Mart" makes a good point.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 07:24 PM   #24
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 390
Default Re: head stud removal

I just did battle with the studs on a 36 LB block. The studs were crusty from sitting with the heads off and being roughly handled so I didn't care about saving them. I'm gunshy about heating any part of a flathead block because the last time I did I heated the area near the rear oil gally plug a little to try to uncrew the plug and before it really got warm it cracked the rear wall of the block from the bellhousing to the manifold surface. That was unsettling.


So I started unscrewing them, first budging them a bit with a 6" pipe wrench and an extension handle, then a Snap on collet style stud remover/installer and an impact wrench. I was pleased and amazed that all but 2 studs came out that way. Those 2 sheared off just below flush, and pretty easily at that. One on each side.



Those last 2 I went to work on with TIG and the washer trick, and expected them to come right out, I've done that before on lots of things. First I tried just welding the nut to the stud, building up a little weld then welding the nut on. Twisted the welds off several times. found some washers and attached the washer first, then the nut to the washer. Used up all the big washers I had. Ordered some nice heavy washers from McMaster Carr and went at it again. Broke off at least 15 welds between the 2 studs, lost count. When I had 3 of the heavy washers left. I decided I'd drill the center of the studs out to let them collapse a little to make them less tight in the block, then weld on them again.


I used a head as a drill fixture. I made a drill bushing out of mild steel with a .452 OD and a .250 ID. Bolted the head on with 4 bolts using my calibrated fingers (tm) to center the head on the bolts so the drill would be centered on the broken stud. Went at it with a 1/4" drill, those stock studs are pretty hard, the bushing allowed me to lean on it without worrying about alignment or walking off center. Went through both at 1/4. opened up the bushing to 5/16 and drilled both to 5/16" that's where I was going to weld, but I changed my mind and kept drilling becuse the drilling was going so well. Next drill was a T drill, that took out the root diameter of the threads. I then started trying to pick out the remains of the threads but that didn't go well, those studs are tough. I wound up chasing a tap in the hole, found that I hooked the reamains on the end of the tap and wound the last half of it back out of the hole. On the other side I went to a U drill and to my surprise, that caught the beginning of the remaining threads and screwed them in through the hole and deposited them on top of the intake port in the water jacket. It looks like a helicoil insert and the hole threads looks OEM.



I did not try the wax trick. By the time I thought of that I was welding washers and couldn't see getting wax past the hot washer. I did make the broken studs plenty red hot, hoping they would shrink but no luck there. I considered using stronger filler wire, I was using ER70s wire, but I was afraid if harder/stronger wire didn't get the studs out I'd have a harder time drilling them afterwards. I'll definitely try the wax next time.


edit - I sprayed the studs with Kroil for several days before, and during the process. Not a single stud showed any signs of it penetrating into the threads, every one was quite dry as it came out. That makes me wonder how wax could get in there, they seem to be an interference fit.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20201031_200544-800.jpg (45.3 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg 20201114_135310-800.jpg (73.0 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg 20201114_135318-800.jpg (49.3 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg 20201114_145028-800.jpg (50.7 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg 20201114_194851-800.jpg (56.6 KB, 56 views)

Last edited by Yoyodyne; 11-18-2020 at 10:01 PM.
Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2020, 09:43 PM   #25
Lawrie
Senior Member
 
Lawrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Qld, Australia
Posts: 3,661
Default Re: head stud removal

This sure has put up some different ideas in getting the studs out, for me this is always the worst job on prepping a block.
Good to see the other ways of doing it.
thanks Lawrie
Lawrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2020, 12:28 PM   #26
KiWinUS
Senior Member
 
KiWinUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here
Posts: 2,219
Default Re: head stud removal

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Over the years I have tried every method suggested & some.I also have a large mill I can set blocks up in to remove studs. I am very "Time Conscious". This is why I now only use the method I described. Maybe I am lucky I have never messed up a block or even the threads in a block, must very very lucky as many times I have used this procedure. I also agree ARP stud sets are expensive but I can easily re-coup that money if I am not spending hours on end or even days removing broken studs when it can be so quick & easy. I invite anyone with a junk block to try it. Even a chev block will work.
Have fun.
Cheers
Tony
KiWinUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2020, 02:36 PM   #27
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 2,925
Default Re: head stud removal

I too, over the years have used all the above methods...the last block I had to remove studs from, I used a stud extractor that slips over the stud and grips with three eccentric grippers, held in a battery powered impact wrench. Every stud backed out; not a single one broke!
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2020, 05:43 PM   #28
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
Default Re: head stud removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan View Post
Does anyone here have experience using a magnetic base drill press to drill out the broken piece of stud while staying on center?

The worst Flathead studs we've found can be drilled out using the magnetic drill press in about 10 or 15 minutes! Depends on the remaining length in the block?

We simply "whiz-wheel" the top off, leaving about 1/4"-3/8" sticking up. We have the proper tooling to aline the drill press and the stud before we drill anything?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a shot of the drill press ready to go! It is a very versatile tool all-around!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Magnetic Drill Press-Flathead Ford.jpg (77.5 KB, 72 views)
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2020, 12:58 PM   #29
40larry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 144
Default Re: head stud removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyodyne View Post
I just did battle with the studs on a 36 LB block. The studs were crusty from sitting with the heads off and being roughly handled so I didn't care about saving them. I'm gunshy about heating any part of a flathead block because the last time I did I heated the area near the rear oil gally plug a little to try to uncrew the plug and before it really got warm it cracked the rear wall of the block from the bellhousing to the manifold surface. That was unsettling.


So I started unscrewing them, first budging them a bit with a 6" pipe wrench and an extension handle, then a Snap on collet style stud remover/installer and an impact wrench. I was pleased and amazed that all but 2 studs came out that way. Those 2 sheared off just below flush, and pretty easily at that. One on each side.







Those last 2 I went to work on with TIG and the washer trick, and expected them to come right out, I've done that before on lots of things. First I tried just welding the nut to the stud, building up a little weld then welding the nut on. Twisted the welds off several times. found some washers and attached the washer first, then the nut to the washer. Used up all the big washers I had. Ordered some nice heavy washers from McMaster Carr and went at it again. Broke off at least 15 welds between the 2 studs, lost count. When I had 3 of the heavy washers left. I decided I'd drill the center of the studs out to let them collapse a little to make them less tight in the block, then weld on them again.


I used a head as a drill fixture. I made a drill bushing out of mild steel with a .452 OD and a .250 ID. Bolted the head on with 4 bolts using my calibrated fingers (tm) to center the head on the bolts so the drill would be centered on the broken stud. Went at it with a 1/4" drill, those stock studs are pretty hard, the bushing allowed me to lean on it without worrying about alignment or walking off center. Went through both at 1/4. opened up the bushing to 5/16 and drilled both to 5/16" that's where I was going to weld, but I changed my mind and kept drilling becuse the drilling was going so well. Next drill was a T drill, that took out the root diameter of the threads. I then started trying to pick out the remains of the threads but that didn't go well, those studs are tough. I wound up chasing a tap in the hole, found that I hooked the reamains on the end of the tap and wound the last half of it back out of the hole. On the other side I went to a U drill and to my surprise, that caught the beginning of the remaining threads and screwed them in through the hole and deposited them on top of the intake port in the water jacket. It looks like a helicoil insert and the hole threads looks OEM.



I did not try the wax trick. By the time I thought of that I was welding washers and couldn't see getting wax past the hot washer. I did make the broken studs plenty red hot, hoping they would shrink but no luck there. I considered using stronger filler wire, I was using ER70s wire, but I was afraid if harder/stronger wire didn't get the studs out I'd have a harder time drilling them afterwards. I'll definitely try the wax next time.


edit - I sprayed the studs with Kroil for several days before, and during the process. Not a single stud showed any signs of it penetrating into the threads, every one was quite dry as it came out. That makes me wonder how wax could get in there, they seem to be an interference fit.



I saw somewhere that genuine Ford studs are oversize and do practically form an interference fit to prevent coolant from coming up through the threads. If you screw a new Dorman stud into the stud hole you will find that they actually will wobble in the threads......40larry
40larry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2020, 07:59 PM   #30
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 390
Default Re: head stud removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
The worst Flathead studs we've found can be drilled out using the magnetic drill press in about 10 or 15 minutes! Depends on the remaining length in the block?

We simply "whiz-wheel" the top off, leaving about 1/4"-3/8" sticking up. We have the proper tooling to aline the drill press and the stud before we drill anything?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a shot of the drill press ready to go! It is a very versatile tool all-around!

The way I did it with the bushing in the head was almost that fast, definitely would be next time when I don't have to experiment and feel my way. I had no way to determine the exact center of the hole without setting it up in a machine so I felt safest with the head as a guide. Setting it up in a machine would have taken all day to do both sides.

I lust after a nice mag drill, haven't needed one enough to get one yet. There's a device that's sort of a hand powered version of a mag drill that is often called an "Old Man" drill, sometimes a Cole drill, ratchet drill etc. Here's one in use. I borrowed a mag drill to do this job, but wound up doing it the old fashioned way. I found this on Ebay and cleaned it up - might be a handy alternative for someone only doing this occasionally.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20171031_180614-800.jpg (63.5 KB, 44 views)
Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2020, 08:01 PM   #31
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 390
Default Re: head stud removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40larry View Post
I saw somewhere that genuine Ford studs are oversize and do practically form an interference fit to prevent coolant from coming up through the threads. If you screw a new Dorman stud into the stud hole you will find that they actually will wobble in the threads......40larry
Makes sense.
Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2020, 03:34 AM   #32
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 574
Default Re: head stud removal

I don't have Ford's, thread spec for the studs but, I do for the tapped holes. Ford spec for the drill, is 8.9mm (.3504). Yes, Ford, even in the '30's, used a metric size drill!

The holes are to be drilled .349 min, .353 max. The highest class of thread external threads, class 3A, has a minor diameter of .3499. The normal min class 3B hole size is .360. B means internal thread.

So, the stud holes will have only .0009 to .0031 clearance to the minor diameter of a class 3 thread. That is why you shouldn't re-tap the holes, with std taps.

I use a grade 8 bolt, that I grind a notch in the tip, to clean threads. The notch needs to be at a angle, to form a sharp edge or, even hook shaped, on the leading of the threads. It cleans the threads and the notch gives the dirt and corrosion a place to go.
__________________
Frank
'35 Ford Model 51
'48 Ford F3
'54 Ford Tudor Mainline
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2020, 09:23 AM   #33
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 390
Default Re: head stud removal

Thanks Frank, that's hard info to come by, and important.
Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.