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Old 08-11-2012, 09:56 AM   #1
tombia
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Default brakes,brakes?

Getting the parts together to do the brakes on my 29, Aside from repaired roller tracks, new bushings, and using the flathead ted parts, what should I be doing do. This is going to be a somewhat local only driver, Dont plan on going on any long tours, Woodie wagon. My other car is a T, so I am a causious driver. Original drums good shape.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:24 AM   #2
Great Lakes Greg
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

I am very un-impressed with Ted's floaters, as are other members in my club. Opinions will vary, and I'm sure you will get plenty of them here.
Brakes should work properly no matter where you drive. Most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, that's why I moved.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:49 AM   #3
Glenn C.
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

Particularly with the front brakes if you are using the Ted's Floaters, you don't need to recondition the roller tracks, as they won't be used as part of the system. Install the floater system on the front wheels first and try them for a couple of hundred miles before taking on the rears.
The rear roller tracks really don't require rebuilding, other than for dressing up the edges with a file or die grinder, as the rear shoes use "Squire Pins" rather than the normal roller pins with the head riding on the tracks.
I have the Ted's Floaters on a 28 Leatherback which I have found to be great on the heavier vehicle. We also intend installing the floaters on a 31 Town Sedan that we have, as that vehicle is probably the heaviest of the Model A's.
If you haven't done so already, you might consider installing cast iron drums with new bonded linings while you are at it.
Make sure the rest of the brake system is in correct working order and set to specifications.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

Ditto Great Lakes Creg ; If your breaks are per original spec . you do not need floaters .
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #5
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

I don't have experience with Teds floaters, I have read some of his posts in the past and I am impressed that he knows his business where leverage is concerned.

If you haven't already invested in the floaters, here is a few tips on setting up original brakes, the way that I do. If you don't live in the mountains, original steel drums will be good if they are worn about .035 over 11 inches and not more than .050 over 11 inches. I never have steel drums turned, Ford didn't recommend it. Turning the steel drums will remove surface hardness . Usually people have problems setting up the center service brake cross shaft . With the brake pedal to cross shaft rod set with the pedal at the top and propped, I adjust the clevis at the pedal so that the plunger at the rear end of the rod is against the center cross member, where it holds back the plunger on the brake light switch. The service bullitins says to allow 1/16th inch clearance between the plunger and the crossmember to prevent squeaks. I have never had a problem with squeaks and my method gives an extra 16th inch of adjustment on the front brake rods. I've heard of some running out of threads on the front rods where the clevice connects , when trying to get the 15 degrees foward slant on the front brake levers. Adjust ALL of the free play out at the brake rod clevis before installing the the brake rod clevis pins. In other words, with the slack pulled back on the brake levers, you should just be able to just slide the brake rod pins in to place. I prefer the woven brake lining, I feel that they give better friction againce the drum for better stopping power. I grind a taper on the leading and trailing end of all of the brake lining, after it is riveted to the shoes, from the ends of the nlining almost all the way to the two rivets at each end of the shoes. Without grinding a taper at the leading and trailing ends of the lining, can and will cause difficulty or inability to get the drums over the shoes. You have to work with the brake tracks to center the shoes. I usually build up the worn tracks with weld, where they are obviously worn. Installing new repro tracks is NO guarantee that the shoes will be centered and will take just as much work to center. I save time and money and weld up and grind my tracks on the backing plate without removeing them. In the past, I made centering tools out of old worn out hubs and drums. I now have the centering tool that is sold by most model A venders. Some type of a centering tool is an asset for setting up the brakes. Centering will require welding and grinding or bending the ends of the tracks up or down to set the position of the shoes. When I refer to centering, this means that the shoes need to fit to the backing plates in a way that will give equal clearance arround the inner circumferance , between the drum and the lining. I have found that when possible, it is best to replace each shoe to the same place that it was removed. In other words don't remove all of the shoes and mix them and the pointed adjusting shafts that attach to the upper end of the shoes, up. I have had good luck useing the roller pins from Snyder. Remember that the larger round head of the roller pin must fit and ride on the brake tracks. In other words the cotter pins will face the outside. If the brake operating pins that extend through the king pins to the lower front brake wedge isn't bent, I build up the worn ends with weld and grind and chamfer as needed. The book calls for a 7 1/4 inch length for the operating pins. depending on wear of other parts , it may be necessary for the pins to be slightly longer , this will help get the 15 degree foward lean for the front brake levers Don't worry about exact degree. I set the right front lever at about 11 oclock and the left at 1 oclock . I lay the bent brake rods on an anvil and hammer them straight. I either weld up the eyes of the brake rods and drill them back to size or use oversize brake rod clevis pins.The rear brakes will usually require replaceing the rear brake camshafts, bushings and sometimes cams. I always replace all of the brake springs. I don't use brake spring pliers. I hook the spring to the rivet and shoe and use the shoe as a lever to pull the shoe in place and get the head of the roller pin so that it rides on the tracks.Its not real easy, but if the head of the roller pin isn't rolling on the tracks, it just won't work and you probably won't be able to get the drum on anyway. Its not rocket science. Model A brakes are the simplest brakes that I know of . You just need mechanical ability and common sense . Its not so that everything must be replaced. Thicker cast iron drums will be better in mountainous country but good steel drums will work fine otherwise. Its good to have a little free movement at the service brake cross shaft bushings to allow for flexing of the frame. I use the split brass bushings. This isn't all of the minute details but should give general ideas. I have found with common sense adjustments, mostly to the brake rods will usually give brakes to model a's that have none or very poor brakes.

Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 08-11-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #6
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

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Hi purdy I think you got it backwards on the forward lean of the front brake levers.The RH lever should be at 1 oclock & the LH lever at 11 oclock.The LH being the drivers side.This is likely what you meant as I know you know what you are doing when it comes to "A",s
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:29 AM   #7
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by columbiA View Post
Hi purdy I think you got it backwards on the forward lean of the front brake levers.The RH lever should be at 1 oclock & the LH lever at 11 oclock.The LH being the drivers side.This is likely what you meant as I know you know what you are doing when it comes to "A",s
That's as viewed from the outsides. Purdy was on the creeper viewing from the inside.
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:54 AM   #8
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

Sorry guys , Tom is correct. The lean and what oclock depends if you are going by the inside or outside of the wheel, right or left. The drivers side is left. If i'm sitting on a creeper connecting the front brake rod to the lever on the left side. the lever should be at one oclock. When I'm typing these long winded tech. posts, in my minds eye, I see myself performing the task that I am trying to explain in as simple terms as I can. Left being the drivers side is a lesson that I learned when I started as a bodyman many years ago. If I made a mistake ordering body parts for the wrong side it caused problems and a delay. At the risk of causing confusion, I should have just said leaning foward at about 15 degrees and let it go at that. Most probably pay no attention to some of my rambling. On the other hand, some young guy may be trying to use a dial indicater to find the exact 15 degree point. That is why I brought up the oclock thing to make it simple. I didn't consider that it reverses, depending on which side of the wheel that you are looking at it from. In a way its sort of like trying to explain the reasions to avoid clockwise backlash when setting the timing. It sometimes gets confusing.

Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 08-12-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: brakes,brakes?

You guys are all right, Thanks. Fooled with T's for 45 years, but never had any reason to do A brakes and all the advertising gets confusing to an old fellow like me
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