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10-31-2019, 06:17 PM | #1 |
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221 connecting rods
I am rebuilding an engine for a friend from his 38 coupe. It spun 2 rod bearings and damaged the crankshaft and of course the 2 rods. I am rather new at rebuilding flatheads, just wondering if it is possible to upgrade the connecting rods to the later style with the locating tabs instead of the free floating bearings. I am having trouble finding a machine shop that will resize the original rods to fit the crank. Any suggestions? Thanks, Tim
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10-31-2019, 06:32 PM | #2 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Some Canadian and English rods had the notches for lock in shell type bearings, so they are out there....however, finding the C41A prefix shell bearings to suit is nigh on impossible. Set up correctly, the original floater type rod bearings and rods are superior anyway....
Try placing a classified advert in the swap meet column...
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10-31-2019, 07:18 PM | #3 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
There are aftermarket rods which can be used for the 38, two inch, diameter crank pins. However there are other considerations. I am not aware of any rods made by Ford, which used lock-in bearings, for that small crank pin. The 2.138 diameter used in the later engines certainly will not work.
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10-31-2019, 07:53 PM | #4 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
I believe you would need the later crank with two oil holes for the later rods. I have one if wanted.
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10-31-2019, 08:32 PM | #5 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
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10-31-2019, 08:36 PM | #6 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
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10-31-2019, 10:23 PM | #7 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Or...you use the corresponding two hole Canadian/English 221 crankshaft. Yes, they exist
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10-31-2019, 10:30 PM | #8 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
P-15, exactly which engine is in the 38? 21 stud or 24? Both engines were available in 38.
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10-31-2019, 11:22 PM | #9 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
I'm sure you can get a used 91a or 21a rod for someone. I don't have any spares. Then a reground crank and a new set of floaters will fix it. Now the late 59/8ba crank will not drop right into the early 38 as it has the small main. it will on the late 38 but the rods won't go thru the 3.06 bore. now add up alll the money your going to spend on the repair. Maybe you can find a later engine for it.
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11-01-2019, 06:33 AM | #10 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
I have some new rods for the early V8 if you are interested. $35 each
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11-01-2019, 09:18 AM | #11 |
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Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Its the 24 stud. Can't find the engine serial #, but the head casting # is 81A-8050. Evidently the rod bearing must have started seizing to the crank as it wore the outer shell of the bearing, although its companion rod from the opposite bank did not wear its half of the bearing. This happened to the front 2 cylinders on each bank. The crank is about .003 below spec on the front 2 journals.
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11-01-2019, 09:23 AM | #12 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Thanks for the suggestions, I will get the crank out and check things further. Nice to know there are experienced people out there
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11-01-2019, 09:55 AM | #13 | |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Quote:
So, the point is it can be a little difficult to pin down the actual year of an engine. In addition Ford switched from 21 stud engines to 24 stud engines during the 38 models. You need to pay attention to what the internal components are and go from there. |
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11-01-2019, 10:10 AM | #14 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
If the crank is only .003 out of spec, then the journals are not really damaged and you should able to turn the crank .010. Check the sides of your rods, they are most likely labeled "91A" - though they could be "21A". If it were mine, I'd pickup a couple of the same type rod, have the crank ground .010, have the rods potentially rebuilt/resized (by somebody who knows flatheads!) and then have the rods balanced (again, make sure they know how to balance flathead rods correctly - there are no 'balance pads' to grind on). You probably wouldn't even need to balance the engine unless you want too.
You would still be running full-floater bearings - and the new set needs to be "hand setup" to properly float - you can't just throw them in the engine and go. Not a big deal - checkout YouTube - I have posted some of the details. The total amount of work kind of depends on your plans for the engine, the amount of time/money you want to put into it and the results you're looking for. It is one thing to do a stock style rebuild, another to start chasing performance upgrades, finned heads, dual carbs, new cams, etc.. If you're doing a full rebuild, then make dang sure whatever machine shop you take it too really knows flatheads, understands the complexities of the valvetrain (and has the correct flathead-specific pilots), etc.. Anybody can run a boring bar - but most shops have no experience in the REST of the flathead engine . . . Also, since you're new to flatheads - pickup a couple books on them . . . so you can learn the details and the nuances of building these engines. They are not complex, but there are a lot of tricks/techniques to know about. Search this site for book recommendations. Good luck! B&S |
11-04-2019, 10:47 AM | #15 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
B&S Thanks for the info. I did some calling and found a machine shop that has experience with sizing rods to the crank on flatheads. This is going to be a stock rebuild. The machinist I talked to seemed familiar with the floating rod bearings. Again, thanks for the help
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11-05-2019, 05:30 PM | #16 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Be sure that the crank is not damaged, and the journals are properly sized We grind a lot of cranks at our shop, and many, if not most, have been reground at some time. It is not rare to find that all the journals are not the same size. Checking them with a caliper is not
sufficient. |
11-06-2019, 01:07 AM | #17 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Where you at Tim?
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11-06-2019, 07:25 AM | #18 | |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Quote:
Calipers are not good mics for checking journals and bearing sizes - other than to know what you're CLOSE too! |
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11-08-2019, 11:10 AM | #19 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
Tinker, I am located in the northwest corner of South
Dakota. I operate a farm equipment diesel repair shop, but in off hours generally work at restoring old mopars, occasionally taking on an old Ford |
11-08-2019, 07:52 PM | #20 |
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Re: 221 connecting rods
My family is from the Black Hills as well as the White River areas . . . I spend a lot of time in good ole' SD!
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