Babbitt or inserted engine ? ? ?

[Jim Huseby]

Hi Ernie- Regarding oil, there have been some long threads here on that subject with some very interesting reading. I think you should read them all and do some additional research. I will tell you what I used this time at the risk of for sure catching flak for it. I broke it in with Brad Penn 30 break-in oil, then used O'Rielly's 10-30 with ZDDP, having intended to drive just a few gentle miles before changing to synthetic 5-30 or 10-30 with ZDDP, but didn't get around to it. It had 1306 miles on it when I took the pan off. My thinking is that heat generated at the bearing surface is reduced somewhat by using synthetic, at least if there is any truth to the manufacturers' claims.

[PC/SR]

Yo Ernie: I have babbitt and use an A FORD ABLE oil filter with Chevron 15/40 Delo oil. I do not think it makes much difference what oil you use so long as it is detergent.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

For those using a counterweighted crankshaft, they will find it is nearly impossible to remove the rear main cap to adjust the bearing clearance while the engine is in the vehicle. Next factor is who would be adjusting the bearing cap clearances? If someone is paying to have this service performed, it is different than someone doing it themselves at a much less cost.

So if you use a SCAT with babbitt you'll need to pull the engine to adjust rear main? You used the words "nearly impossible".

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by M2M

So if you use a SCAT with babbitt you'll need to pull the engine to adjust rear main? You used the words "nearly impossible".

Not just a SCAT crankshaft, but most any crankshaft with counterweights.

The reason I purpose used the word nearly is because there is always that chance where someone might butcher the flywheel housing to remove a large enough section to be able to lower the rear main cap. Remember, we live in an age where Common Sense is NOT that common.

[Railcarmover]

Its common sense when running as business to reduce risk. Line boring and installing insert bearings is a smart move from that perspective,its straight forward machine shop practice coupled with proven parts to install.

Its in the machinists best interest to push inserts over poured babbit.

[Railcarmover]

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Insert bearings are designed for pressurized applications,they require high flow under pressure to stay clean. Pressurized oil also allows them to design a harder babbit,the oil film is a constant measurable value,allowing the engineer to increase the hardness of the inserts babbit due to a pressure constant as opposed to gravity.This is why the insert failures are catastrophic,taking out the journal,you are basically exceeding the lower threshold by using a gravity system..

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by Ernie Vitucci

Good Evening all...Can those of you that have had good luck with Babbitt or Inserts tell us what type of oil you are using and how often you change it and if you also have an air filter and or an oil filter...Thanks, Ernie

I have 90,000 miles on my current inserted (mains and rods) non-pressurized engine.
I equipped it with an A-Ford-Able full flow oil filter when first put into service. I have run about 60K of the 90k miles without an air filter.

I used 10w30 oil for the first 70k miles. I switched to 15w45 oil from 70k to present. For most of it's history, I did not add ZDDP. For the last 20k I have added ZDDP.

Oil change interval is 2500 miles to 5,000 miles depending on the conditions I have driven it. If I am on a long road trip, I will change at 5,000 miles. Short runs at 2500 miles.

Regardless of how many miles I have on an oil change; when I store the car for the winter, I change the oil and run it for about 1/2 hour with the fresh oil in it. I typically do not start and run the car during the winter storage period.
Good Day!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Railcarmover

Its common sense when running as business to reduce risk. Line boring and installing insert bearings is a smart move from that perspective,its straight forward machine shop practice coupled with proven parts to install.

Its in the machinists best interest to push inserts over poured babbit.

To some degree I believe your thoughts have merit. Unfortunately some businesses also choose to only promote what they are capable of, -or have a vested interest in financially. Using my line of work as an example, I have found there are some restoration shops that are not really restorers, -but are parts replacers. They lack the equipment and the skill level to actually 'restore', and as such they promote replacement of parts and outsource anything they cannot do themselves. A generator might be a great example. Since they do not have the equipment nor skill to correctly rebuild the original generator's components, they replace the generator with a store-bought Alternator and only promote the benefits of the alternator while dissing the generator -yet if facts were studied and applied, the rebuilt generator could have equally served the owner's needs well.

The same mindset can be said for Babbitt. If a restoration shop does not possess the skills, -nor have they invested in the tooling & education to pour babbitt correctly, naturally they will promote what they are capable of doing and belittle the other. If they need a perceived advantage, maybe they skew the facts of babbitt a little to make the insert conversion look better? Unfortunately, most people choose only to believe what seems believable to them, ...even if what they believe is wrong.

The true bottom line is each may have a perceived advantage but IMHO neither of them have a distinct advantage over the other.

[Dave in MN]

Brent comments on the advantages of Babbitt vs. insert bearings in a previous post:

"The true bottom line is each may have a perceived advantage but IMHO neither of them have a distinct advantage over the other."


I agree fully. I think either type of bearing will provide good service if installed and maintained correctly. I also think the debate as to which is better will continue as long as the sun still sets at the end of the day.

Good Day!

[George Miller]

All engines that I have worked on deliver the oil to the top of the main bearing. 30lbs pressure is not going to raise a crankshaft off the bearings with a load on it as in a running engine. The crankshaft turing causes a hydraulic wedge effect. All the pressure does is make sure you have lots of oil there. pressure no pressure make little difference as long as the oil gets there

now the rods are different. They get lots of pressure with the dippers going through the oil.

[msmaron]

Something i found on the benefit of babbitt.