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Old 11-11-2019, 01:01 PM   #1
Ian1932
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Default Tranny info and test?

Stopped at my dads on lunch break. Im trying to gather engine parts so everything is ready when im ready. There were several marked model B and some marked v-8. Some of the empty v-8 castings looked a little different than this one. A few had no guts. This was the easiest to get to so i grabbed it. It looks clean and complete as well. Can you guys help me with what i have here and if its what i should attach to a 34' flathead for a roadster?

Any simple tests i can do to see if its ok? It had a tag that said "good". That tag was probably of there for 50 + years...Would hate to use it without verifying its good. The engines and trannys are not my strong point...
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

I would think someone doing a points restoration would trade you a nice -34 gearbox ready to go for that one...
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

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Originally Posted by flatheadmurre View Post
I would think someone doing a points restoration would trade you a nice -34 gearbox ready to go for that one...

Why is this a 32'? I have a 5w coupe that im doing next that is going to be 100% bone stock 32' except maybe the engine block...Im trying to reponsibly select parts for this car and set aside "stuff" for the 5w...
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

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Originally Posted by Ian1932 View Post
Why is this a 32'? I have a 5w coupe that im doing next that is going to be 100% bone stock 32' except maybe the engine block...Im trying to reponsibly select parts for this car and set aside "stuff" for the 5w...
A few details about '32 trans...............the shift top has bosses for the emergency brake handle, the trans case does not have a removable clutch inspection tin cover(where the grease cup is), it has a '32 rear mount (flat plate) and the stoplight switch is mounted to the shift top. A '34 trans will look similar except has a clutch inspection cover and can be set apart from other case by the lack of grease fitting on the clutch shaft bosses (as is the same with your '32 case). Good luck
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Old 11-11-2019, 01:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

That 32 transmission has a relatively low V8 number too. If you have a 32 vehicle, the numbers likely won't match unless it came from that vehicle. The trans cases were stamped at powerplant assembly then the frame was stamped when the engine/trans assembly was installed.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

It also has the long 32 type lever for the clutch release. That would be useful for when you want to do a 32.

Depending on how authentic you want the 34 there are later transmissions that will make the car drive better. Quieter gears and better synchros were all introduced over the years. If there are other candidates available, one of those may make a better choice for your 34.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

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It also has the long 32 type lever for the clutch release. That would be useful for when you want to do a 32.

Depending on how authentic you want the 34 there are later transmissions that will make the car drive better. Quieter gears and better synchros were all introduced over the years. If there are other candidates available, one of those may make a better choice for your 34.
The roadster im building now is a 32'. It has just about all 32' henry ford steel parts with the exception of a drop front axle and the engine block (34'), juice brakes and a rear spreader bar. The one big difference is the paint on the frame is body color and not black. I would be able to turn this car stock if i wanted with relative ease. Im just making this car like my dad envisioned it...

With that being said i think im going to use this one. I went back after work and there are 2 more of these that are complete and they both spin smooth. this one shifts smooth, spins like silk. Should i open it up? Look inside? Change some seals? Or just clean it up and paint it and go...?
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Ahh......the hopes and dreams of the transmission novice. Stop and think about just this for a moment. To install or remove the early Ford transmission is quite a project, with the torque tube design. You have to either disconnect and pull back the rear end/torque tube assembly, or pull the engine (plus you still have to disconnect it from the torque tube). Either way, this is a major job.

At the very least, you should remove the shifter housing and have a look inside. Sadly, even if things look beautiful inside and the gears roll smoothly in all positions, there could be problems lurking in the transmission that simply are not evident on the surface. Bad bearings are not always obvious when rolling the gears. Worn out synchronizers are impossible to detect with the early types like you have without pulling it apart. Same with excessive endplay.

You have the transmission out right now. What better time than now to check the unit out properly. Just sayin.......
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

With respect, given that vehicle in question is a '32, there is no option regarding the removal of a transmission once installed. It cannot be removed to the rear because of the design of the original center cross member. It must come forward, which means pulling the entire engine/transmission assembly.


The transmission in the photos is 100% '32, but it will fit and function behind any '32-'48 V8 engine. But no matter what is written on the transmission's tag, I strongly recommend that it not be used as is. For starters, it still has the '32-'34 clutch release bearing grease line set up which suggests that it still has a '32-'34 clutch release bearing. That should be replaced with a new one that is permanently lubricated and the flexible grease line eliminated.


The clutch release shaft at the bottom of the front of the case is the original solid version and the bushings on each side of the case may well be worn. You can test for that by pulling the arm on the end up and down to check for looseness.


As all of the above recommend, you should pull the shift lever cover off and inspect all of the gears to make sure there are no chipped gear teeth and that everything inside is rust free (drain whatever lubricating oil is in the case before removing the shift lever housing). Judging from the amount of rust on the gear shift lever and its retaining cap and the u-joint cap on the back, the transmission wasn't stored in a dry environment, and therefore there is a likelihood that there also is rust inside the case. That might lead to a major overhaul with gear and bearing replacements.

The rubber in the rubber and stamped steel mounting plate (that attaches the transmission to the center cross member) on the back of the transmission case appears to be in bad condition, at least judging from your photos. At a minimum, it should be removed, thoroughly cleaned, and inspected. If the rubber has deteriorated to the point of likely uselessness, it should be replaced (reproductions are available). Its evidently poor condition suggests that this transmission came out of a high mileage car, which does not bode well for wear and tear inside the case. At a minimum, if used as is, expect the shift lever to pop out of second gear on deceleration.


Lastly, I just noticed what appear to be cracks at two of the bolt holes on the outer lip of the bell housing. Those should be repaired properly or the case replaced with one of the others that you found, if they're undamaged.

Last edited by DavidG; 11-12-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac VP View Post
Ahh......the hopes and dreams of the transmission novice. Stop and think about just this for a moment. To install or remove the early Ford transmission is quite a project, with the torque tube design. You have to either disconnect and pull back the rear end/torque tube assembly, or pull the engine (plus you still have to disconnect it from the torque tube). Either way, this is a major job.

At the very least, you should remove the shifter housing and have a look inside. Sadly, even if things look beautiful inside and the gears roll smoothly in all positions, there could be problems lurking in the transmission that simply are not evident on the surface. Bad bearings are not always obvious when rolling the gears. Worn out synchronizers are impossible to detect with the early types like you have without pulling it apart. Same with excessive endplay.

You have the transmission out right now. What better time than now to check the unit out properly. Just sayin.......
Yes, i am a novice. That is why im asking the questions...I do not know all the things you guys know and im reaching out for help...My dad did have a tag on it that said "good" he knew what he was doing so im kinda leaning on that. Im just asking what i can do to inspect this and look for obvious signs of a lurking problem? Change some seals or something? Im not trying to just paint and mount. This post was the intention to have the guys that know help me so i dont mount a transmission that has problems. Im really trying to be clear of the intentions of my original post. I know little but i can learn everything...
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
With respect, given that vehicle in question is a '32, there is no option regarding the removal of a transmission once installed. It cannot be removed to the rear because of the design of the original center cross member. It must come forward, which means pulling the entire engine/transmission assembly.


The transmission in the photos is 100% '32, but it will fit and function behind any '32-'48 V8 engine. But no matter what is written on the transmission's tag, I strongly recommend that it not be used as is. For starters, it still has the '32-'34 clutch release bearing grease line set up which suggests that it still has a '32-'34 clutch release bearing. That should be replaced with a new one that is permanently lubricated and the flexible grease line eliminated.


The clutch release shaft at the bottom of the front of the case is the original solid version and the bushings on each side of the case may well be worn. You can test for that by pulling the arm on the end up and down to check for looseness.


As all of the above recommend, you should pull the shift lever cover off and inspect all of the gears to make sure there are no chipped gear teeth and that everything inside is rust free (drain whatever lubricating oil is in the case before removing the shift lever housing). Judging from the amount of rust on the gear shift lever and its retaining cap and the u-joint cap on the back, the transmission wasn't stored in a dry environment, and therefore there is a likelihood that there also is rust inside the case. That might lead to a major overhaul with gear and bearing replacements.

The rubber in the rubber and stamped steel mounting plate (that attaches the transmission to the center cross member) on the back of the transmission case appears to be in bad condition, at least judging from your photos. At a minimum, it should be removed, thoroughly cleaned, and inspected. If the rubber has deteriorated to the point of likely uselessness, it should be replaced (reproductions are available). Its evidently poor condition suggests that this transmission came out of a high mileage car, which does not bode well for wear and tear inside the case. At a minimum, if used as is, expect the shift lever to pop out of second gear on deceleration.


Lastly, I just noticed what appear to be cracks at two of the bolt holes on the outer lip of the bell housing. Those should be repaired properly or the case replaced with one of the others that you found, if they're undamaged.
David, Once again thanks for such a thorough response! You are great! I value your input like you'll never comprehend!
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

The top shift mechanism should also be inspected. I also believe a rebuild and total inspection is in order before installation. There is no way to inspect the syncro blocker rings without disassembly.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:01 AM   #13
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Terry,


With respect, there are no separate synchronizer blocker rings in a '32 transmission, but I agree with you otherwise.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Blockers came later at the end of the 30s. While the early types are synchonized in 2nd & high gear shifting, it's not quite as good a set up as the blocker type. A person still has to manipulate the rpm manually during shifting but it is definitely better than the crunch boxes like the model A & trucks had. Early gearboxes can be modified with later guts but the later blocker type synchronizers required a different shift fork so that complicates things a bit.

Mac VP from post #8 has parts for the Ford cog boxes and an excellent book that covers all the bases of parts ID and rebuilding of the Ford light duty 3-speeds. It's well worth the modest price and invaluable for information. A person with a good mechanical skill set can easily go through a unit and get it right with info like that.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Dave you are correct the brass blocker rings are part of the syncro hub and staked in place. Looking at the rings and their associated groves can give a good idea as to wear. If the rings are loose in the hub is bad. Unlike the separate blocker rings of the 38 transmission no part of the 32-37 rings can be seen with the transmission assembled.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Hey Ian: As noted, pull the top first - inspect it carefully for any signs of chipped/broken teeth, etc.. If it was mine, I would go through it from end-to-end . . . it is really a simple process (much easier than building an engine) and you'll learn a lot.

Buy the transmission book from Mac VanPelt - it can help you a lot (though it tends to concentrate a bit more on the later transmissions). The transmission you have is definitely a 32 transmission - not quite as good as later versions (39 - 48), but still very usable if you set it up correctly, learn how to double-clutch to get it back in low, etc.. Also, it has the unique to 32' features of the bolt-on bosses for the hand brake and the mounting location for the stop-light switch (which is on it).

Keep in mind that bearings, bearing quality, thrust clearances and worn parts replacement are key. A lot of these transmissions were driven hard, with poor maintenance and dirty gear lube - resulting in wear to critical bearings and surfaces.

You really want to know the shape of the main cluster shaft, the cluster bearings, the main drive shaft front bearing surface, the front/back roller bearings and all thrust surfaces - they need to all be in spec (hopefully on the low-end of the spec).

You should be able to find all the parts you need to rebuild it - starting with Mac VanPelt. It does not take special tools or a huge amount of time to go through one of these - and NOW is the time to do it! As DavidG noted, you can't easily remove this transmission once it is in the car --- when I have this need, I have to pull the complete engine and transmission to work on the transmission . . . not a fun job!
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

The loose sychro rings are sometimes refered to as balk rings or blocker rings since they act as a gear brake during the shift and allow for a close alignment with the recieving gear. That is the balk function. The wider slot in the ring allows the ring to be a bit offset when not engaged so it helps to prevent movement of the shift sleave while engaged on the opposite side. This is the blocker function.

The early type only has the sychronizer function so the balk function is provided in a less possitive way during the shift but it will slow the gear a bit as pressure is applied for the shift due to the design of the hub. there is no blocker function but the design of the sleeve was such that it wasn't a real problem as long as the operator doesn't try to speed shift. The synchronizer function was adequate for normal shifting.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Thoughts on tranny. You could use this '32 case and install a complete gear set from a later tranny that has later synchronizers. This requires the correct top. A bracket can be make for the emergency brake lever using a piece of angle iron.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

On the small case, a person has to watch out about what ratio input to cluster gears. I don't think the 29/15 gears will fit in the small cast. 28/16 should be OK or the Lincoln gears if a person wants those for some reason. The type of shift tower is the other part. The angled type would require some specialized work to get the shift fork to work for the later type synchronizer.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-14-2019 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

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Thoughts on tranny. You could use this '32 case and install a complete gear set from a later tranny that has later synchronizers. This requires the correct top. A bracket can be make for the emergency brake lever using a piece of angle iron.
The only issue with this if you care about authenticity, is the transmission cover, and floor mat will no longer fit properly.

When built proper the 32-35 transmission shift just fine for my taste, however I am not drag racing, hill climbing, or whatever else.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Once you change to the later gears, then you need the later transmission top (like a 39). When you do this, you cause a few problems (all of which can be overcome - if you know what to do):

1) The "straight up" shift tower of the 39 top requires that you alter the original 32 transmission cover - taking about 5/8" of metal from the front of the hole
2) You no longer have a provision to mount the hand brake - so you'll need to buy a bracket designed to bolt to the 39 top and mount the 32 hand brake.
3) If you're using the stock 32 brake light switch - it no longer has the correct mounting holes - so again you need a bracket to allow you to use it with a 39 top.
4) Stock mats and any special carpeting may need to be modified - as the shift tower is now bigger, straight up and further forward.
5) You'll need to use a later shift lever - you can no longer use the 32 lever. Most folks like the "swan neck" 39 shift lever - but it definitely is not shaped like a 32 lever.
6) Depending on the later gear set, you may need to grind/clearance the inside of the 32 case (such that the front cluster gear clears the case).

Okay - that is about all I can think of! LOL

Good luck!
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

somebody made a slant tower cover for late gear sets, JM 35 has one i believe from an older post. not available, but it can be done
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Tranny info and test?

Folks have modified forks to work with the angled tower and late type synchro. I've not see one to know exactly how it was done but it would likely require fitting & welding of parts. The fork has to be the wider type and positioned correctly to move the synchro sleeve into the correct positions for proper function.
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