35 Steering Column Drop Break-off Bolt Removal

[VeryTangled]

Greetings Everyone.

I need the horn rod out of my '35 Fordoor. To do that I want to lower the steering column to avoid damage to the fragile horn rod. Two bolts originally held the column drop to the dash. One of them was designed as an anti-theft device and the head of the bolt was broken off at manufacture (as I understand it).

My question is what techniques have worked for you to get this headless bolt out?

I've gotten a couple of suggestions from my support group, but before I get medieval on it I thought I'd throw it out here for discussion.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful replies!

P.S. In the first pic you can see a dust-covered wheatback penny sitting between the two bolts, didn't get a chance to check it out closely yet but I can't imagine how it came to be there, or how long it was in there!

[Kerk]

Cut ir off with a hacksaw Blade & then unscrew the other bolt !!! kerk

[RalphM]

I would clean the top of it, lay a nut on top of it then weld it with a Mig, it would come right out.

[jimTN]

penetrating oil first, top and bottom then ignition plyers. Maybe a small chisel to get it started turning.

[slowforty]

Use a hacksaw to cut a grove in the bolt. then use a screw driver to remove the bolt. Penetrating oil is your friend
This worked on my 40

[slowforty]

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Groove

[slowforty]

I just looked at your pictures. You may get lucky and can cut the groove in the bottom of the bolt. I had to do mine from the top, but it still worked

[fordscript]

I drill a hole in the centre... a good soak of penetrating oil,then use an ez out.

[Kube]

If you can apply a locking plier to it, that's the easiest method. If not, cut a slot and use a short, wide blade screw driver.
Lord knows I've removed many. Every one has been removed with one or the other method I'd mentioned.

[JM 35 Sedan]

If you decide to use a hacksaw to cut that bolt between the bottom of dash and top of column drop, be very careful you don't mess up your column drop mounting like the one in attached pictures. I bought a complete steering column and didn't notice this damage until I got it home.

Unfortunately, some folks should not be working on these old cars, IMO.

Also, be careful using the easy out method. They break very easily, and then your real problems begin.

[VeryTangled]

Thank you FordBarn'ers! I'll be working this out over the next couple of days (he said confidently).

I'll try to get some pictures.

Whatever happens, I sure hope I don't end up with something destroyed like this...

[tubman]

That ain't destroyed. A little careful work with "JB WELD", and it'll be as good as new (after paint). The important thing is that there are no real structural problems to deal with.

[VeryTangled]

To me, that IS destroyed. JB Weld is nowhere on my cars, so far, fingers crossed. Steering stuff, to me, qualifies as structural.

Sorry for being a little salty tonight.

[cas3]

and, it looks like it was a lot of work to do that much destruction. i do the "weld on a nut" theory myself.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

To me, that IS destroyed. JB Weld is nowhere on my cars, so far, fingers crossed. Steering stuff, to me, qualifies as structural.

Sorry for being a little salty tonight.

To each his own. I personally take great satisfaction in bringing parts "back from the dead". Sometimes replacement parts are available, but many times they are not. About five years ago, I resurrected a vent window regulator for my '67 Corvette coupe. I used JB WELD, and the unit has functioned perfectly and has shown no signs of deterioration in the intervening years. Last year, I restored a Navarro "Universal" dual manifold for an 8BA that I got incredibly cheap off of eBay because the generator stud hole was stripped and a couple of bolt bosses were broken. What would you have done, sold it as scrap? The only difficult part of restoring that steering drop would be refinishing it properly. Properly repaired, I cannot see how there could be any "structural problems" with the piece. JB WELD, helicoils, and such have become a way of life for me, and my life is better for it. Granted, some pieces are critical and can be beyond reasonable repair, but I have found this is seldom the case.

The satisfaction of completing a successful "bring back" usually far exceeds the money saved by not having to buy a new piece. You should try it some time.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

To each his own. I personally take great satisfaction in bringing parts "back from the dead". Sometimes replacement parts are available, but many times they are not. About five years ago, I resurrected a vent window regulator for my '67 Corvette coupe. I used JB WELD, and the unit has functioned perfectly and has shown no signs of deterioration in the intervening years. Last year, I restored a Navarro "Universal" dual manifold for an 8BA that I got incredibly cheap off of eBay because the generator stud hole was stripped and a couple of bolt bosses were broken. What would you have done, sold it as scrap? The only difficult part of restoring that steering drop would be refinishing it properly. Properly repaired, I cannot see how there could be any "structural problems" with the piece. JB WELD, helicoils, and such have become a way of life for me, and my life is better for it. Granted, some pieces are critical and can be beyond reasonable repair, but I have found this is seldom the case.

The satisfaction of completing a successful "bring back" usually far exceeds the money saved by not having to buy a new piece. You should try it some time.

I tend to agree with you only in cases wherein the part is unobtainable. JB, helicoils, etc. are in my opinion for a down and dirty repair.
My personal issue is I have a difficult time seeing a part repaired that way as little more than a pig in a dress. That pig might look nice, but it's still a pig.
Properly restoring a vehicle, anything for that matter, is to recreate the beauty throughout the piece, not simply what can be visually seen.

[tubman]

"Kube" - As I said, "to each his own". You seem to be a guy whose main interest is 1000 point restorations. I think that's great. I love to look at them in museums. However, I don't think most of the folks on this forum are that interested in show cars they can't drive. My "pig in a dress" might be the difference in getting a car on the road or not. I believe most of the guys on here are like me, just trying to get their car as good as they can and get it on the road. "Gold-Chainers" need not apply.

I stand by my statement.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

"Kube" - As I said, "to each his own". You seem to be a guy whose main interest is 1000 point restorations. I think that's great. I love to look at them in museums. However, I don't think most of the folks on this forum are that interested in show cars they can't drive. My "pig in a dress" might be the difference in getting a car on the road or not. I believe most of the guys on here are like me, just trying to get their car as good as they can and get it on the road. "Gold-Chainers" need not apply.

I stand by my statement.

For the record, I respect your opinion.
I'm not certain that I made my point clear in my last post...
I know it's mostly just me... I was never able to make things "good enough". Lord knows there are many times, I wish I could. Methinks that would make life easier at times.
On the plus side, I enjoy the challenge of what I do.

[tubman]

"Kube" - I also respect your opinion. I really wish we could all afford to expend the time and money to do restorations to the standards that you ascribe to. Alas, for most of us mere mortals that are just trying to get our vehicles down the road, that's just not possible. My goal for the next summer is to get my '51 in shape to leave Minnesota, visit some friends in Iowa, stop by the Auburn meet, and continue east for several weeks to visit friends in Maine, Massachusetts, and New Jersey. A real "Dream Trip", in the tradition of "Old Henry". I just wish I can be as good a photographer as he is.

Hopefully, I will run into you somewhere along the way and we can continue this banter.

Sly Stone said it best - "Different strokes for different folks"

[reagen]

yes

[19Fordy]

Use vise grips on the threaded shank and twist it out little by little until you get a good grip on it. Slot idea works good too.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by tubman

"Kube" - I also respect your opinion. I really wish we could all afford to expend the time and money to do restorations to the standards that you ascribe to. Alas, for most of us mere mortals that are just trying to get our vehicles down the road, that's just not possible. My goal for the next summer is to get my '51 in shape to leave Minnesota, visit some friends in Iowa, stop by the Auburn meet, and continue east for several weeks to visit friends in Maine, Massachusetts, and New Jersey. A real "Dream Trip", in the tradition of "Old Henry". I just wish I can be as good a photographer as he is.

Hopefully, I will run into you somewhere along the way and we can continue this banter.

Sly Stone said it best - "Different strokes for different folks"

Sly Stone? NOW you've given away your age!

Good song, good message...

[JM 35 Sedan]

Guys....please keep this post on track with suggestions for Jeff (VeryTangled) on how he might attack removing that break-off bolt holding the column drop/steering column to the dash. If you want to "banter" on other subjects, you could always use PM's.

The damaged column drop, that I posted pictures of in an earlier reply, will be properly repaired to be as good as original....but NOT by using JB Weld.

[RalphM]

So, did you get it out yet?

[Flathead Fever]

I bought this at a swap meet 30-year's ago, not having a clue what it was used for? It said K.R. Wilson on it so I was hoping it was some kind of Ford tool? I'm pretty sure its for taking out the anti-theft bolt. If I turn the outer nut it pushes those teeth forward and they would bite into the broken bolt. Then the bigger nut rotates the teeth which would back the bolt out. I've never tried it. I've never seen another tool like it.

[Gary in La.]

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This KRW tool BV-40 is the ignition lock tamper proof stud remover as shown in the 1936 KRW catalog. There is a notation stating it does not fit 1935 models and recommend using an easy-out-tap on them. A rare KRW tool.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

This KRW tool BV-40 is the ignition lock tamper proof stud remover as shown in the 1936 KRW catalog. There is a notation stating it does not fit 1935 models and recommend using an easy-out-tap on them. A rare KRW tool.

Hey Gary, thanks for identifying the tool. Its a shame it just sits here and will never get used.

A left handed drill bit might take one of those bolts out? We used them for taking broken bolts out at work. You had to drill them out anyway for the easy-out. A lot of times the counter clockwise drilling unscrews the broken bolt right out and you never need the easy-out. Except, this is not a broken thread but a tightened bolt so its not coming loose as easily.

We also welded nuts to the broken bolts if they were broke off in cast iron. A MIG weld will not stick to the cast iron and the heat helps break loose stuck threads.

I smear anti-seize on everything so the next guy will be able to get it a part.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by RalphM

So, did you get it out yet?

I think tomorrow is the day for the serious attempts. I don't want to start off on the wrong foot on this job.

It's one more day that I wish I had all the KRW tools to work on these cars! That one flathead fever posted looks like it would do the job lickety split!

Edit to add 24 hours later: After closer reading (thanks for the tip JM) I realize this tool is for another part of the drop, not the mounting bolt I'm after. Alas, still a very cool piece of engineering!

[Flathead Fever]

I think I would try the slot idea first and if that does not work I'd use an easy-out. I've had good success cutting screwdriver slots with one of those real narrow Dremal cutoff wheels. You need to definitely where goggles because the cutoff wheels are pretty fragile and easily turn into eyeball shrapnel. Get a tight fitting flat bladed screwdriver that has the built in spot on the shank to put a wrench on so you have some twisting leverage. One hand can forces the blade tight into the slot so it doesn't strip it out the slot. The other hand turns the wrench which reals it loose.

When you buy your screwdrivers make sure they have the spot to put a box wrench on them. Snap-On screwdrivers are the best, they will take out screws others screwdrivers will not but at $20.00 to $30.00 "each" its pretty hard to justify buying them for occasional home use. The ones I have I bought used. Here is a photo of some William brand screwdrivers on Amazon. They have the spot to put a box wrench on the shank next to the handle. It makes a big difference having that wrench on there doing the twisting. They also have the rough finish on their tips which make them grab better.

The other thing you can try is an impact driver to break the bolt loose. The problem with them is half the time they work and the other half they strip out the slot. It depends on the hardness of the screw or bolt.

[VeryTangled]

Flathead Fever, thanks for the helpful ideas.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. Problem solved, it really wasn't that hard. Once I got a grip that I was happy with, I turned it a little both ways. It felt as if the tool was slipping on the bolt, but it was actually turning! Yippee.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!

The penny turned out to be 1948.

[cas3]

it appears that you would agree if i said "you can never have too many vise grips" !

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by cas3

it appears that you would agree if i said "you can never have too many vise grips" !

I am extremely lucky to have excellent access to the tool room and shop floor at a college. Our hammer collection is jaw dropping.

[Kerk]

Just removed a cut off bolt from a 1936 complete assembly - it will be at fitchburg ! kerk

[JM 35 Sedan]

Way to go Jeff!! That's a nice collection of Vise Grips!!
I'm thinking the date of that wheatback penny could have been a significant date for the previous owner; i.e. birthday, anniversary, etc. We did things like that for good luck. Sorta like we did as kids by putting pennies in our loafers.

[Jason M.]

Just for purposes of posterity here is a photo of a small nut tig welded to the original column drop bolt to remove the bolt.

[oldbugger]

Now what, it's out. how many of us actually use a break off bolt to reassemble. I know I didn't.

[fordv8j]

since you got it out, cut a slot in it with a hacksaw, then re-use it, get it tight put some puddy in slot; and don't tell anyone

[Ken/Alabama]

Here’s how it’s done.