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Old 08-13-2022, 09:31 PM   #1
Bursonaw
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Default Title Woe’s

I have a 1936 Ford Roadster that I purchased from a friend in Idaho 8 years ago. The car came with a clear title. At the time I lived in Connecticut and they do not issue titles for cars older than 25 years. Recently I moved to Virginia and went to title the car with all the proper paperwork. I just received a letter from the Virgina DMV stating that they cannot issue me a title because a title was issued in Oregon with the same VIN number on 11/2021. I clearly have paperwork that shows that I own the car and that the vin number was an original Ford VIN number on the car. Does anyone have any thoughts on what I should do to resolve the issue? I will call the Virginia DMV Monday to get more details.
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

Oregon here; Someone in Oregon used that vin #! Does your frame have the original readable vin? Didn't realize the data was National. Get the Oregon details if you can. Send a photo to Oregon DMV with your vin highlited with white chaulk. Oregon clerks do not know the correct font of those numbers. They'll accept any shaped number. Newc
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:02 PM   #3
Bursonaw
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

Thanks for the reply, I will keep you posted to see how things turn out.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

dollars to donuts someone at the dmv in Oregon copied the numbers wrong..........
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:45 AM   #5
deuce lover
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

In OR is that VIN tied to a '36 Ford roadster or another body style?
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:51 AM   #6
Steve in Denver
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What is your chassis number? You need to look real close. Ford used the letter "I" in place of the number "1".

If your transmission is original, Ford used the same number on the transmission as they used on the frame.

I can't find it right now, but someone has a list of all the substitute letters for numbers that Ford used.
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File Type: jpg transmission number lr.jpg (107.8 KB, 132 views)
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Old 08-14-2022, 07:53 AM   #7
Terry,OH
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

What will it take to satisfy your DMV, ask? If your title is in order and it matches the vehicle. Maybe have your State highway patrol inspect the vehicle and title to certify correctness. If your state DMV doesn't like what another state did then your DMV should straighten it out with the other states DMV. It would seem this, interstate problem, is out of your control.
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Old 08-14-2022, 08:49 AM   #8
Bursonaw
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

Tanks everyone for your response. I will keep you posted on my progress.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

If you do not have the original transmission, someone could have that case and stamped that VIN onto another frame. I would check your trans first. Will be an interesting to see what the solution to this is. Would be nice to know if the car in Oregon has a remake frame.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

[URL=“https://youtu.be/-FX2vH0ENms"]
National motor vehicle titling information system (NMVTIS)
You are supposed to be able to find info on the other car from there website
As a fellow Virginian I wish you luck but with my past dealings with vadmv it’s going to be difficult depends if you talk to the right person

Todd

Last edited by Oldtmtech; 08-14-2022 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:42 AM   #11
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

I'd rather be in your shoes then the other guy. If it is truly the same VIN and not a M.V. error. Someone has some explaining to do.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

Hopefully this link works

[URL="https://youtu.be/-FX2vH0ENms"]

Try www.vehiclehistory.gov
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

It has only been relatively recent that a database has been available between states. This kind of stuff will likely affect more and more owners of historic vehicles due to clones and street rods that do not have the original frames. When new reproduction bodies started showing up then some builders were looking for original frames to use for original number registrations. When they use a bare frame they should check available databases to make sure their frame didn't come from a street rodded or restomodded car where a new custom frame was used. Some builders may have pulled a number out of thin air without researching it. I'm sure they assume the number was from a car that had been scrapped.

A state DMV used to only be concerned with vehicle numbers in their own state but certain federal laws have been passed that added stuff like a shared federal database. It was just a matter of time before these type problems come up. This matter may have to be taken up in a state court of the new residency. A judge can make a ruling based on the evidence of legal identification and the state DMV will have to accept that ruling.
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Old 08-14-2022, 10:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

I have the exact same thing going on here with my jeep. The family I bought it from had it since 82. Then, in 2012 dad was getting ill so they transferred the title to the son. I bought it in spring of 21. Went in to transfer the title and the lady tells me another jeep, same year and same serial number was registered in Washington state in 2013. The numbers are clear and ledge able on my jeep so someone out in WA either made a mistake or made up a number to apply for a title. The problem they tell me is the new computer systems all talk to each other, and will not allow you to enter a number that already exists. In my case, the state says they are working on the problem, and I should try back every couple months to see if it goes thru. Meantime, they keep giving me permits to drive it. Very frustrating when you have a good title in your hand with 40 years of owner history and they tell you its no good !
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Old 08-14-2022, 10:42 AM   #15
J Franklin
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

This is another form of "identity" theft!
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Old 08-14-2022, 11:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

It can be considered fraud in some cases. Several high profile builders have been to court for things of this nature. The main problem is that a vehicle in a different states jurisdiction would likely not care much about trying to prosecute cases like this unless there are multiple provable violations. That would be closer to provable fraud.
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Old 08-15-2022, 07:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

I had the same thing happen with my '33 sedan delivery.
It had a clean title from Iowa but Oregon said it was already registered in their database.
I am in Calif.
My registration lady had to write a letter to Calif DMV and to Oregon DMV.
They would not release records to the public.
Calif DMV found out that the Oregon title was for a 1960's foreign car and my title predated their title.
Calif DMV gave me a clean title at that point.
I understand that there are a lot of duplications on earllier VIN numbers, with many assigned to motorcycles.
The DMV's are linked now supposedly so more of this will be coming to light.
I won't be buying any more projects without proof positiv
e the title is good and it is current.
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Old 08-15-2022, 07:54 PM   #18
Alan O'Connell
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

I feel your pain. I've had difficulties with the DMV in Massachusetts both with my 1935 and 1936. I bought my 35 in 1997 and didn't know that I was supposed to pay the sales tax within 20 business days of buying the car. So when I went to the registry in 2011 all I had was a bill of sale and the paperwork from my insurance agent. I had to pay the sales tax as well as a penalty for not getting there within 20 business days. they charge a sales tax on the book value, not what you paid for the car. Luckily they couldn't find the book value so they let me pay the sales tax on what I paid for the car. Then the DMV agent handed me a paper and told me to get a police officer to verify the vin and sign the paper. I did that and went back to the registry. You never get the same person twice so I saw a new guy this time. He wanted to know why I bought the car in 1997 and had it for 14 years before registering it. I explained that it took me that long to restore it. He was skeptical. He told me to get a bond just in case I'm at a car show and somebody comes up to me and tells me that my car is actually his and it was stolen years ago. I went to my insurance agent and got a bond. The bond cost me $400. I went back to the registry a fourth time. Once again I got a different person. I handed her all my paper work. As she's going though everything she holds up the bond and says, "What's this for?" I explained why I got the bond. She said, "You don't need a bond!" and puts my paper work through.
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Old 08-16-2022, 03:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O'Connell View Post
I feel your pain. I've had difficulties with the DMV in Massachusetts both with my 1935 and 1936. I bought my 35 in 1997 and didn't know that I was supposed to pay the sales tax within 20 business days of buying the car. So when I went to the registry in 2011 all I had was a bill of sale and the paperwork from my insurance agent. I had to pay the sales tax as well as a penalty for not getting there within 20 business days. they charge a sales tax on the book value, not what you paid for the car. Luckily they couldn't find the book value so they let me pay the sales tax on what I paid for the car. Then the DMV agent handed me a paper and told me to get a police officer to verify the vin and sign the paper. I did that and went back to the registry. You never get the same person twice so I saw a new guy this time. He wanted to know why I bought the car in 1997 and had it for 14 years before registering it. I explained that it took me that long to restore it. He was skeptical. He told me to get a bond just in case I'm at a car show and somebody comes up to me and tells me that my car is actually his and it was stolen years ago. I went to my insurance agent and got a bond. The bond cost me $400. I went back to the registry a fourth time. Once again I got a different person. I handed her all my paper work. As she's going though everything she holds up the bond and says, "What's this for?" I explained why I got the bond. She said, "You don't need a bond!" and puts my paper work through.

What happened to the guy claiming the car was his and was stolen 14 years ago? It must have been B.S. on his part.
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Old 08-16-2022, 04:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Title Woe’s

... what happens a lot is a person buys a frame and the seller keeps the title with numbers that match the frame. It could be an original Ford frame or one that has assigned numbers on it. The seller wants the title to use on another car. The person who buys the frame may or may not use and try to register it right away in his name. Then when you get to DMV, they tell you your title is already registered to somebody else.
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