Cost to Attend the MARC Meet??

[rogeroadster]

So I've been looking at the MARC web site and I can't seem answer this question...possibly someone here can help me. I live near San Diego and thought I'd attend the meet for one day without my model A. Do they have a one day registration fee or must you register for the entire week?? I am a MAFCA member so is it necessary to be a MARC member to attend the show/swap meet etc.?? Anyone know how much it would cost to attend for the day??

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Roger, to officially attend many of the functions of this event, you do need to register for the meets ($85.00) plus you would need to be a member in good standing of MARC to register for the meet. There will be some activities that would be outside along with people mingling that could be "unofficially attended" without paying the fees, ...other than the outrageous $35 a day parking fee imposed by the hotel!!

[rogeroadster]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Roger, to officially attend many of the functions of this event, you do need to register for the meets ($85.00) plus you would need to be a member in good standing of MARC to register for the meet. There will be some activities that would be outside along with people mingling that could be "unofficially attended" without paying the fees, ...other than the outrageous $35 a day parking fee imposed by the hotel!!

Thanks for the reply...

It looks like it would cost me (the casual observer) $158 to attend the show for one day... or possibly I could park on the street and get by with $120. Plus I'd get another magazine subscription for a year.

[Roadster62]

This makes Pebble Beach in August at $175.00 a head a better deal IMHO. It's been on my Bucket List for 30+ years and the years aren't getting longer.

[peters180a/170b]

Roger , It should cost you nothing ! Put on a Model "A' shirt .walk in the parking lot and that's it. You can walk around the flea market [if there is one] and around all the cars parked outside the hotel. Nothing stops you from walking around unless the ares is roped off for some reason. There are so many people there who knows who??? But you can join MARC while your there for $38.00 ........good luck..

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by rogeroadster

So I've been looking at the MARC web site and I can't seem answer this question...possibly someone here can help me. I live near San Diego and thought I'd attend the meet for one day without my model A. Do they have a one day registration fee or must you register for the entire week?? I am a MAFCA member so is it necessary to be a MARC member to attend the show/swap meet etc.?? Anyone know how much it would cost to attend for the day??

The theory is that this is a MARC meet for members and only members can attend. There are events and seminars inside that also need money to be paid to attend. I remember a big blow out about the monies raised by the sponsor host club a few years ago. I also remember the Dallas club refunding "excess" profits to those that attended as well as a DVD with info and pictures of the event.

[Roadster62]

I've never been a member of a Model A Club, but you would think, getting new members would be a set goal. Making the time and location of the meets known to the general public should allow new people exposure to the hobby. There are an awfull lot of people walking around the AACA Meet in Hershey , for the cost of parking a vehicle.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

I've never been a member of a Model A Club, but you would think, getting new members would be a set goal. Making the time and location of the meets known to the general public should allow new people exposure to the hobby. There are an awfull lot of people walking around the AACA Meet in Hershey , for the cost of parking a vehicle.

You are so right!!! Events like these meets get new members period! When out local club put on displays rarley do we not get a new member.

[Elcastor]

No, no, no! I am at the MARC Meet. The cost is $70 to register and $10 to park all day if you are registered. $16 to park all day if you do not register. You could park for $16 and view all the cars in the parking lot, and I do not know what all else.

[rogeroadster]

Well, it is a shame that they don't have a one day registration fee that could include the price of a club membership. I tend to think that they are missing the point of even having this meet if it doesn't include attracting new members or developing interest in the Model A.

[Jim Mason]

As peter said, you can enjoy all of the non-registered parts of the show for free (usually includes the outdoor swap meet and such. I'd just go over and see whats what. You should be able to view the cars in the parking lot, and that would include allot of the touring class, maybe a couple of the show cars as they are being prepped, the swap meet (bring cash, there will be bunch of original parts) with vendors , and you will get to meet all the people you want. If you want, join the club. If you want register for some of the other parts of the meet (late registration $80) Indoor swap usually free, Seminar on canadian A's 5$, Restoring door handles and locks $5, Cabbie and vickie meeting free, Side curtain seminar $10, speedometers $5, Ads literature and posters $5, Fine point start and idle free, era radios $5, view the judged cars free, New engine block $5, 400a/180a/190a $5, smith compressor free, engine rebuild $5, shocks and arms $5.

[peters180a/170b]

Perfectly said Jim , you have more of a writing skill then i do .. And more time to do so...l.o.l.

[Roadster62]

Well, I'll feel much better on the lawn at Pebble Beach with real car people, so don't worry about seeing me at a Model A National.

Originally Posted by fordgarage

That really is the purpose of local clubs that are chartered by the National. Local clubs should recruit members locally into the National clubs, via local functions, parades, swaps, shows, etc.

If local enthusiasts won't turn out or sign up at local events, why would they travel to a National meet at the last minute? The National meet is not for the public, or a recruitment drive. It is a membership meet, by and for the members.

Perhaps family reunions could/should advertise and invite the general public to their functions, in the name of making new friends?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Elcastor

No, no, no! I am at the MARC Meet. The cost is $70 to register and $10 to park all day if you are registered. $16 to park all day if you do not register. You could park for $16 and view all the cars in the parking lot, and I do not know what all else.

I don't know where you came up with that figure but if you CLICK HERE you will see a copy of the registration form. At the top of page two it clearly shows that the price to register is $85.00 now that it is after June 1st. The parking fee for the Meet is by the hotel, ...and is free if you are a Hotel guest AND registered for the Meet. I am unaware of any hotel parking discount given by MARC.

Roger, my suggestion -like others, is to come on and see what you can for free. I will tell you that right now, the outdoor swap meet consists of 3 vendors. I do not know whether Meet registration is required for the indoor swap meet attendance as it will officially open this morning but just take a chance on seeing what you can. Fine point cars will be entering the building tomorrow evening.


Vince, your idea of inviting the general public to a Family Reunion is GREAT!! I've done met all the ones that come to my family's reunuions and talking with all of them is the same subject year after year. They're ugly and boring!! Maybe inviting some pretty young ladies next time would give me somebody else to talk to all day!!

.

[Elcastor]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I don't know where you came up with that figure but if you CLICK HERE you will see a copy of the registration form. At the top of page two it clearly shows that the price to register is $85.00 now that it is after June 1st. The parking fee for the Meet is by the hotel, ...and is free if you are a Hotel guest AND registered for the Meet. I am unaware of any hotel parking discount given by MARC.

.

Sorry, I had forgotten that the $70 I paid was a "sign up early" price. Yes, the cost to park all day is free if you are a hotel guest, but $10 if you are not a hotel guest, but are signed up for the MARC Meet.

[frank55a]

Vince is 100% correct.

We go through this every year with one and/or the other club's national meets. It seems like a good number of those that do not attend the National meets of either national club, simply do not or will not understand their purpose and what they are about. Further, these meets are hosted by a local club, they have to cover their expenses regardless if the specific activity has no charge there is generally an expense to the host club, this is part of the reason for the registration fee. Additionally, the other part of the registration requirement, specifically being a member, is to ensure all the meet attendees, the host club, and the national club is covered by the club's general liability policy. Attending a national meet is not unlike attending any other national convention of a fraternal organization, specifically, you must be a member. While the national meets are intended for members only and generally not advertized to the public, anyone is welcome to join and attend, most of the time even at the meet and still attend all of the activities that are not sold out. Simple question, if a person is unwilling to join the organization and support the national club, then why should the national meet be open to non-members? There is always someone looking for a free ride at the expense of others.

[BrianBurkert]

I have been to a few MARC meets and I have to say that the host clubs do an excellent job. That is a boatload of work for a handful of helpers! It is asking a lot for them to have all sorts of ala carte registration options. In my general past experience, I saw no reason that a spectator couldn't pull into the parking lot and view the cars and/or swap meet. Also, the people were always helpful and I'm sure a prospective new member could get a warm welcome and membership information at the membership desk.

[1931 flamingo]

I "snuck" into an EV8 meet in Windsor, CT last year or year before. Wandered thru the parking lot as fellows were cleanng vehicles, small outside swap area, etc. No one questioned me. Met some nice folks.
Paul in CT

[jimalabam]

If you want to dance, you gotta pay the band...

[peters180a/170b]

Boy ,if this is the way you treat a MAFCA member "crap".i would not even join MARC. Tells me about some of the members. Let the guy walk around and have a fun day..MONEY ,MONEY, MONEY sounds like the tax people! Next time have the meet behind closed doors [and charge to the max]! Hell ,i am spending $200.00 for 1 day to sit under a tree[i hope] at Macungie car show just to have fun and meet my MARC/MAFCA and FORDBARN buddies and shoot the shit all day and listen to the music and eat! This is my family reunion just like Hershey! CAR HOBBY FAMILY!

[Roadster62]

The only way most people get to see the "Fine Point" Henry winners is at AACA events and local ones like Macungie. Thanks for being a normal guy Pete.

[Jim Mason]

Gee, I guess you guys told 'us'. I'm going to be completely broken up by the fact that you won't attend any of the national meets. You've really hurt me.
With out attending, with out going to see what is available for free, you've come to the conclusion that you won't see a fine point cars, meet anybody, attend an almost 100% Model A swap meet, won't see the 100's of A's park in the un-restricted parking lot, attend any of the free meetings/gatherings/bs seccessions or see first hand what is what. Then you say 'only real car guys will be a pebble beach', 'The only way most people get to see the "Fine Point" Henry winners is at AACA events and local ones like Macungie'. You might want to work on your 'win friends and influence people' skills...fwiw,jm

[Fred]

Jim, I am so glad you said that... "Pebble Beach" ??

[Roadster62]

I didn't quote your earlier reply, did I?

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

Gee, I guess you guys told 'us'. I'm going to be completely broken up by the fact that you won't attend any of the national meets. You've really hurt me.
With out attending, with out going to see what is available for free, you've come to the conclusion that you won't see a fine point cars, meet anybody, attend an almost 100% Model A swap meet, won't see the 100's of A's park in the un-restricted parking lot, attend any of the free meetings/gatherings/bs seccessions or see first hand what is what. Then you say 'only real car guys will be a pebble beach', 'The only way most people get to see the "Fine Point" Henry winners is at AACA events and local ones like Macungie'. You might want to work on your 'win friends and influence people' skills...fwiw,jm

[Jim Mason]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

I didn't quote your earlier reply, did I?

your point?

[rogeroadster]

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Originally Posted by Jim Mason

Gee, I guess you guys told 'us'. I'm going to be completely broken up by the fact that you won't attend any of the national meets. You've really hurt me.
With out attending, with out going to see what is available for free, you've come to the conclusion that you won't see a fine point cars, meet anybody, attend an almost 100% Model A swap meet, won't see the 100's of A's park in the un-restricted parking lot, attend any of the free meetings/gatherings/bs seccessions or see first hand what is what. Then you say 'only real car guys will be a pebble beach', 'The only way most people get to see the "Fine Point" Henry winners is at AACA events and local ones like Macungie'. You might want to work on your 'win friends and influence people' skills...fwiw,jm

But wait - how can you be hurt?? It was posted here earlier that "The National meet is not for the public, or a recruitment drive. It is a membership meet, by and for the members." so what's a guy to think??

All that not withstanding, I went "for free" and saw the majority of the meet inside and outside. Saw a lot of very nice cars but was disappointed because I didn't see any fine points cars. But everyone I talked to was very friendly and willing to share information. Even though I didn't register I still felt like part of the family.

[Jim Mason]

ahh..i see. 'The your really told us' and the 'you really hurt me' was sarcasm. the only one that was hurt would have be you (if you hadn't gone) and the ones that won't now go, because they were be swayed by your comments...I'm done. You can have the last word if you'd like...fwiw,jm

[Roadster62]

No big deal, this is THE FORD BARN not an official A Club website. "Fine Point", driver, and pile of junk, along with cars that are not good enought for the self anointed experts. With 50 years in the hobby I know what I like, and the people I enjoy being with.

Originally Posted by Jim Mason

ahh..i see. 'The your really told us' and the 'you really hurt me' was sarcasm. the only one that was hurt would have be you (if you hadn't gone) and the ones that won't now go, because they were be swayed by your comments...I'm done. You can have the last word if you'd like...fwiw,jm

[5window]

Originally Posted by frank55a

Vince is 100% correct.

We go through this every year with one and/or the other club's national meets. It seems like a good number of those that do not attend the National meets of either national club, simply do not or will not understand their purpose and what they are about. Further, these meets are hosted by a local club, they have to cover their expenses regardless if the specific activity has no charge there is generally an expense to the host club, this is part of the reason for the registration fee. Additionally, the other part of the registration requirement, specifically being a member, is to ensure all the meet attendees, the host club, and the national club is covered by the club's general liability policy. Attending a national meet is not unlike attending any other national convention of a fraternal organization, specifically, you must be a member. While the national meets are intended for members only and generally not advertized to the public, anyone is welcome to join and attend, most of the time even at the meet and still attend all of the activities that are not sold out. Simple question, if a person is unwilling to join the organization and support the national club, then why should the national meet be open to non-members? There is always someone looking for a free ride at the expense of others.

And the board wonders why the membership numbers are declining and why new folks don't join? Everything you have written has "Exclusion" all over it.

[peters180a/170b]

'SUPER "that you went and was not discourage by some. Roger [a side note] Last year at MARC National meet held in French Lick IN.,, the FINE POINT cars were placed inside the hotel [ West Baden Springs] and what a beautiful setup [ALL NIGHT] .The Hotel was 1/2 booked for MARC Members [the overflow from French Lick Hotel].My point is the cars were on display most of the night and who ever was a guest there no matter belonging to MARC or not could view the cars. I must add one of the RAREST Model "A"s was in one of the HALLWAYS on display for "ALL TO SEE"[FREE] and to me should of been placed with the FINE POINT CAR - the owner did not want it judged[but should of been there anyway!].To me seeing The 1931TownCar Delivery was the show! You just don't see them . p.s. [membership numbers are declining is because the members are getting to old or they passed on. No new members can afford it. Became a $$$ hobby for some to attend.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

Roger , It should cost you nothing ! Put on a Model "A' shirt .walk in the parking lot and that's it. You can walk around the flea market [if there is one] and around all the cars parked outside the hotel. Nothing stops you from walking around unless the ares is roped off for some reason. There are so many people there who knows who??? But you can join MARC while your there for $38.00 ........good luck..

Great post Pete. Parially what the hobby is about.

[Mike V. Florida]

As I've said before the two National clubs should have a taste of the hobby for non members at these meets.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Guys, I am here and you all are quabbling over something that is absurd. As a Judge, I participated in the Functionality Test at the 'Start & Idle' prior to the vehicles being driven into the Convention Center building. I observed many "spectators" that were watching this portion for "free" and I even spoke with some of them between vehicles. You just needed to be at the right place at the right time!!

We start Judging cars again at 8:00AM this morning, and there is a viewing this evening after we get done of both the Fine-point and Touring Class vehicles that does not require a ticket. Most of the fine-point cars were still in the trailer when Roger was there however many people have been coming by and we have been opening the trailers to let them view them. Also, yesterday afternoon, most of us had the fine-point cars out driving them around and prepping them while people were stopping to chat. Marco & Doug were making laps around the parking lot with their Roadsters and again, they had many spectators.

Again, are our accusations here really being fair to the hosting club and the members who paid money to attend?

[HoarseWhisperer]

Still curious. What is the total number of registrants for this year's meet?

[Bill O'Brien]

My opinion, take it for what it is worth.

I am not a member of either Model A Club. Kudos to those of you who are! There are a lot of benefits to being a member of these great clubs.

I feel that the national meet should be open to anyone who is willing to pay the fee to walk in and not be a member. Our hobby certainly could use more members. The kinds of people who dont want to turn our beloved Model A's into hot rods w Chevy 350's in them! (I think 99% of us can agree with that )

Why not encourage more people, non Model A people to come and see how wonderful these cars are and how much fun they can be?

So you charge $15 per person to walk in and open it to everyone. Would be a much larger turnout and might end up making more $$$ in the end.

Thanks for hearing me out

[Jason in TX]

I'll be stopping by Thursday. Hope to say hello to Vern and Brent and any others who are around.

[Milton]

Originally Posted by Bill O'Brien

Why not encourage more people, non Model A people to come and see how wonderful these cars are and how much fun they can be?

So you charge $15 per person to walk in and open it to everyone. Would be a much larger turnout and might end up making more $$$ in the end.

An excellent point Bill. This is the way the NSRA does it and it is the way I got back into street rods and,eventually, Model As. It is win win, the owners pay to register and the interested pay to see. My street rodder club news just emailed the members about the MARC meet this morning.

[Mike in NRN IN]

A very interesting thread.

We could not attend this year - as we are saving money for next year - and I hope (fingers crossed) to make the MARC and MAFCA meets (they are close together WI-MI)

The key is money and with a college student and high school student (driving next year) it's all about being able to save enough to attend the national meets (which I ABSOLUTELY LOVE!) AND there is always something for my entire family to do - tours, fashion, Hubley Derby, chassis assembly, cars, swap meet, friends, etc, etc, etc.

This year it was just not in the cards.

As far as membership - I am members of both national organizations (the price cannot be beat!) Considering some of the other organizations I belong to. . .

Barbershop Harmony Society - $170 per year (6 publications per year)
American Meteorological Society - $90 (publications cost extra)
National Weather Association - $45 (all publications electronic)

So, for the money - MARC/MAFCA are a bargain.

Mike in NRN IN

[WTSHNN]

These events take a lot of money and planning to make happen. A LOT of money.

The problem lies, how do you continue to host these meets, open them up to people to attend for free, and still afford to pay for all the stuff that needs to be paid for? Rooms? Staff? Signage? Insurance? What system do you put into place to regulate who has access to areas and events from a purely security based level to protect both the people and their property they bring to these meets?

Is it fair to expect the people who do register and pay to also cover the expense it would take to host people for free? Likewise, how do you get an incentive to get people to pay that would make that a more attractive option than showing up and partaking for free?

My idea? It is already happening. There is PLENTY of stuff that a person can do at a Model A event for free. Like people before have said, go kick tires in the parking lot, wander the swap meet, etc. All of that is already free and open to the public (at most meets). Go do that. It is fun. I pay to attend the meets and 90% of my time is spent doing that stuff.

-Tim

[peters180a/170b]

All i know is how does it NOT pay to put on a National Meet. What is A.A.C.A. doing right and Model "A' clubs doing WRONG!. First don't get me wrong the Model 'A Meets are super but come on my N.Y.Westchester A.A.C.A. chapter put on a National Meet in 2000 and still working off some of the PROFITS ! It cost $35.00 to register .You are just hurting yourself with no exposure to the hobby!

[rogeroadster]

You know, I started this spirited discussion with what I thought was an innocent enough question:
"Do they have a one day registration fee or must you register for the entire week?? "
The answers have been varied and informative but I still don't see why there just isn't a one day fee for the interested non-member to attend the entire show. I would bet that every member who paid for and attended the entire week would agree that it would be a tremendous benefit to the Model A community. And I'll also bet that they wouldn't feel cheated by those who only registered for and attended one day. Nobody has asked to attend for free, but $123 to attend for one day is enough to deter the average car guy from showing up and yeah, I do think you could advertise a little.

[5window]

There are so many ways they could increase attendance-offer one day for free, offer a reduced price that could be applied to membership, offer a set low price for families, bring in industrial arts classes or summer camp programs, offer a membership without the magazine-there could be quite a list. There appear to be fine,great people in both organizations, but I'd bet both clubs have declining memberships and an increasing average member age.

I could well be missing the point,though. Maybe the folks at MARC want an exclusive club, with a high attendance fee to weed out the riff-raff-the non-serious restorer, the hotordder who loves Model A's. In that case, that's fine with me, too, they just have to say so.

[peters180a/170b]

Roger , i showed my "A" a month ago in Vermont at a A.A.C.A National Meet [Saturday] .Cost me gas ,food and $35.00 to register to be judged. That's it 1 day.Drove up after work Friday ,slept in the truck for 6 hours and showed my car and then back home.National Model "A" meets 4 days if you want to show your car.Monday is owner/judge meeting,so they say you must attend ,Tues is a wash,Wed is fine point judging and Thur. is the tour.Sorry i just don't have that much time on my hands .

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

Still curious. What is the total number of registrants for this year's meet?

Probably somewhere around 275-280. I registered once I arrived at the Meet and I was number 253. Think about it, ...less than 250 people were pre-registered so the turn-out is VERY low IMHO. So is the car count. The majority of the attendees flew in as there is probably only 85-90 Model A's in attendance including the 15 that were in fine-point!!

[peters180a/170b]

i can't believe your a judge...l.o.l.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

i can't believe your a judge...l.o.l.

I'm probably not a very good one but I did judge a couple of classes this year.

[rogeroadster]

"Roger , i showed my "A" a month ago in Vermont at a A.A.C.A National Meet [Saturday] .Cost me gas ,food and $35.00 to register to be judged. That's it 1 day.Drove up after work Friday ,slept in the truck for 6 hours and showed my car and then back home.National Model "A" meets 4 days if you want to show your car.Monday is owner/judge meeting,so they say you must attend ,Tues is a wash,Wed is fine point judging and Thur. is the tour.Sorry i just don't have that much time on my hands ."

"Probably somewhere around 275-280. I registered once I arrived at the Meet and I was number 253. Think about it, ...less than 250 people were pre-registered so the turn-out is VERY low IMHO. So is the car count. The majority of the attendees flew in as there is probably only 85-90 Model A's in attendance including the 15 that were in fine-point!!"

I think you guys are on it here. National clubs are probably as antique as the cars we so dearly love. They can't any longer ask the local clubs to do the leg work, and then collect the attendance money and swoop in to have a car show/swap meet/dinner/board meeting by and for them selves and still expect to thrive. It will be interesting to see when the dust settles how much money the home office made or lost on this venture. But really they ought to start thinking about a makeover to infuse younger thinking or when we all die and our cars are sold at estate sales to retro-rodders that'll be the end of it.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by rogeroadster

I think you guys are on it here. National clubs are probably as antique as the cars we so dearly love. They can't any longer ask the local clubs to do the leg work, and then collect the attendance money and swoop in to have a car show/swap meet/dinner/board meeting by and for them selves and still expect to thrive. It will be interesting to see when the dust settles how much money the home office made or lost on this venture. But really they ought to start thinking about a makeover to infuse younger thinking or when we all die and our cars are sold at estate sales to retro-rodders that'll be the end of it.

With all due respect Sir, you really don't have a clue as to how this works. The "home office" is not involved like you think. As to infuse younger thinking, ...MARC/MAFCA leadership is a group of folks that are elected by the membership of the respective club and generally speaking, the mindset of that body is portrayed through those elected individuals as they govern the Nat'l. Club for us. Therefore the direction of each club is steered by the dues paying members who voice their wishes on how they want their club to be run.

I might also add that the majority of Model A's out there are not owned by MAFCA/MARC members. That would lead me to believe that younger influences into either club will not really affect the future price of what the Model A will be. If you choose to disagree with me, that is OK by me but I really would like to keep the accusations factual to protect the innocent ones who are volunteering their time to provide a club or venue like the 2011 MARC Meet.

[HoarseWhisperer]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Probably somewhere around 275-280. I registered once I arrived at the Meet and I was number 253. Think about it, ...less than 250 people were pre-registered so the turn-out is VERY low IMHO. So is the car count. The majority of the attendees flew in as there is probably only 85-90 Model A's in attendance including the 15 that were in fine-point!!

Thanks for the response, Brent.

French Lick, Indiana was better attended.

Perhaps the MARC midwest/east coast vs MAFCA west coast is still a factor?

It will be interesting to see attendance figures for both clubs national meets in the Midwest for June of 2012.

[rogeroadster]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

With all due respect Sir, you really don't have a clue as to how this works. The "home office" is not involved like you think. As to infuse younger thinking, ...MARC/MAFCA leadership is a group of folks that are elected by the membership of the respective club and generally speaking, the mindset of that body is portrayed through those elected individuals as they govern the Nat'l. Club for us. Therefore the direction of each club is steered by the dues paying members who voice their wishes on how they want their club to be run.

I might also add that the majority of Model A's out there are not owned by MAFCA/MARC members. That would lead me to believe that younger influences into either club will not really affect the future price of what the Model A will be. If you choose to disagree with me, that is OK by me but I really would like to keep the accusations factual to protect the innocent ones who are volunteering their time to provide a club or venue like the 2011 MARC Meet.

Well, I'm not offended and I'm sure you know a lot more about this than I do so I happily stand corrected.
Now, it seems to me that in Southern California where a pancake breakfast can pull 150 model As on a bad year and even you said the turn out was very low at the national meet - why is that? I was there only one day so my observation my not be valid but I drove 120 miles thinking this was going to be a BIG DEAL with lots of cars and I was going to eagerly register and join the club just to be a part of a national event. And I have to say I was disappointed. So do I just expect too much of a national event? Or am I just spoiled because we have so many cars here in SoCal??
I don't mean any disrespect to you or the club but from my (admittedly limited) observation and some of the responses I've read here I'm confused about the concept of a national club.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by rogeroadster

Well, I'm not offended and I'm sure you know a lot more about this than I do so I happily stand corrected.
Now, it seems to me that in Southern California where a pancake breakfast can pull 150 model As on a bad year and even you said the turn out was very low at the national meet - why is that? I was there only one day so my observation my not be valid but I drove 120 miles thinking this was going to be a BIG DEAL with lots of cars and I was going to eagerly register and join the club just to be a part of a national event. And I have to say I was disappointed. So do I just expect too much of a national event? Or am I just spoiled because we have so many cars here in SoCal??
I don't mean any disrespect to you or the club but from my (admittedly limited) observation and some of the responses I've read here I'm confused about the concept of a national club.

Roger,

It very well could be the state of the economy that we are in right now. I mean let's face it...going to a pancake breakfast is nickel and dimes compaired to the cost of going to a Nationl Convention...I think the interest is there...and I would bet that if we were in "better times", you would also have a better turnout...it might be worse than most of us think...Just my thoughts and maybe there is more to the story.

I just wish the heck I could be there but I have pre harvest (wheat) responsibilities to take care of as this is the norm for me during this time of any Model A/AA Ford convention...National or Regional (except for those that are at my back door) .

And due to the strage weather conditions we have had...it is going to be a month long harvest if and when we ever get going.

Pluck

[Steve Ciccalone]

Frankly, I'm surprised by the relatively low turnout in San Diego. I'm very disappointed that I couldn't make it this year due to a variety of circumstances. By my rough count, I think there are about 3000 MAFCA members in CA alone. I would guess that at least a third of them are MARC members like many of us are (the price of both annual memberships is well worth the 12 magazines per year IMO). I would have thought the registration would have reached the 500 mark even though it was on the coast. MARCOM had a good turnout in 2006 when they hosted the MAFCA national and MARC has a very strong presence in the Northeast.

In any case I'm looking forward to the "doubleheader" in 2012. I'm hoping it was done by "design" and not "coincidence" that both meets are a week apart being in close proximity to one another. Next June will be a great month for Model A'ing.

[Jim Mason]

I ran across this: "This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a might one: The being thoroughly worn out before you are thrown on the scrap heap; the being a force of nature instead of a feverish selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy" George Bernard Shaw.

If you are truely interested in improving the the clubs; join, run for office, get involved. Don't stand on the sideline and dinegrate the work of others, with out any intent of becoming 'a force of nature' and investing in the solution. You lower the s/n to the point where nothing can be heard. Just something I was pondering this AM....fwiw,jm (I want to die young, at an old age)

[Keith]

To all this is not meant to be negative however please realize the following: I have attended many National and regional Model A meets and they are worth every penny it cost to attend.

Having belonged to a Model A Club who sponsored a Regional Model A Meet you would not believe the costs associated with putting this event on. Believe it or not the hotel functions rooms needed to host an event are not free the hotel charges going convention rates. There are also too many other expenses to list but please understand it cost the club a lot of money and much of it is put up front with guarantees of return. Even in the end if the hosting club makes money there is at least 3 years of pre-convention planning and many many hours of volunteer time of which know is paid.

[Model A Man]

I would have gone and had planed on going and would have been happy to pay the fees, but due to the economy and having been out of work for awhile I had to cancle my plans to attend. I only live a few hours from San Diego and have never been to a national event for either MAFCA or MARC and hope someday I will be able to. so for now I will have to just enjoy all the pictures and stories that are posted about the event. Thanks PS anyone see the new motor that is/was going to be on display? How about the 2 door sedan that is being raffled off tomorrow, is it there?

[rogeroadster]

Originally Posted by fordgarage

Well,
Attendees at a National Meet typically give up at least a week of their life and time off work to attend. Many have to travel from far distances and bear all the costs of travel and lodging, in addition to the costs of activities at the National Meet itself.

Pancake Breakfasts probably don't require years of planning and convention facilities.
Probably not many people travel large interstate distances solely to attend Pancake Breakfasts, and it does not require a week or more off work for attendees, or a large cost to attend. They are Local events, not National events.

Regarding 'low' turnout at the National, I wonder how many hundreds of non-registered, non-paying, and non-members were actually in attendance?

Do you think their attendance 'helped' the club? By your own admission, you attended, but were disappointed and are confused about the concept of a national club.

So does that mean you did not/will not be joining the National club?

Am I understanding correctly that you also did not register when you arrived for the meet? Did you get any benefit? If so, was it gratis?

So if this National Meet was a 'free' disappointment for you, it reinforces my belief that National Meets are 'by and for' the Members, and not the General Public. They are annual meetings of like-minded members, and their purpose is not for recruitment.

Local events like Pancake Breakfasts are great Local opportunities to attract the Local general public to an event that takes hours not days, generates wide interest, and has a lot of Local recruitment opportunity to connect the Local non-member public with Local Chapters of the National Clubs and their Local enthusiast members.

I hear everything you are saying about attending for free and it doesn't help the club but that's my point - they should tap that market and not just exclude it. I didn't ask to go for free but it was either free or $123 for a day. So I'll stick the 123 bucks in my car. It still seems short sighted that they don't say something like club membership is mandatory for attendance but you can buy a one day pass to the show for $38 which includes 1 year membership to the club. I mean doesn't that promote the club and the sport and reel in a few stray MAFCA members (like me) all at the same time??

[wearymicrobe]

Maybe I am a bad guy but I paid 3$ bucks for a hour of parking yesterday and I parked outside there little flagged off parking and walked around and took a looked at the car's.

Mind you I do not have a stock model A by any stretch of the imagination so I am not MARC type of guys but I did get to see some of the rumble set upholstery that I plan on using in mine and got to see the flathead specially re builder there who I wanted to meet.

did not go inside to look at the 100 point cars, I am more interested in the driven cars then anything else.

I am going to go down again today because I have time off work with my camera I will post some pictures up.

[RockHillWill]

I'm with Jim and George on this issue!

[d.j. moordigian]

Yes, the car count( I THINK ) was low, I expected 3X that amount. Yes, it was expensive to spend 5 nights PLUS the registration. If you brought a car to show it
was more money, I believe.
A 1 day pass or " I didn't bring my car " registration at a reduced rate would be
nice to bring in more people. The Ladies of the club did a great job, according to
my Wife, with the hospitality room and the classes.
It was great to put a face to the people from the BARN, with much nit-picking and
BS made the time fly.

I, had a great time, with great fellowship. Dudley

[Gary Karr]

Frank55a said it like it is. Let me bring you all up to speed on a couple of facts of the 2011 San Diego MARC Meet. I am one of five individuals that formed the Pacific A's Region of MARC for the sole purpose of putting on this National Meet. We chose to host a MARC Meet because they had the closest date available for a meet. MAFCA was booked through 2014. We decided that the next possible date for a national meet from either national club would be 2016. We didn't want to wait that
long. Our board consists of two gentlemen from Los Angeles, one from Orange County, and two from San Diego. With this said, there was a lot of traveling back and forth for us and many others for meetings. Now, onto costs for a meet such as this. The registration fee of $70.00 must cover the costs of many items that are free to registrants, such as custom license plates, factory badge pins, the 44 page printed program, all of the event space at the hotel, all of the A/V rentals, fine point judges hats and lunch, blue and red ribbons, patches for the national club vests, misc printing costs, repair tent rental, the website rental and design, misc office supplies, etc, etc. (I'm sure I'm missing many other items!) AS for parking, registered guests paid nothing for parking if they were staying at the host hotel, and $10.00 per day if registered but not staying at the hotel. Anyone coming to the hotel would normally pay a max of $16.00 per day for parking. I can tell you that there is no convention hotel anywhere in California with free parking. In closing, let me say that those who attended had a ball and we of the Pacific A's really enjoyed hosting the 2011 MARC National Meet.

[Gary Karr]

Frank55a said it like it is. Let me bring you all up to speed on a couple of facts of the 2011 San Diego MARC Meet. I am one of five individuals that formed the Pacific A's Region of MARC for the sole purpose of putting on this National Meet. We chose to host a MARC Meet because they had the closest date available for a meet. MAFCA was booked through 2014. We decided that the next possible date for a national meet from either national club would be 2016. We didn't want to wait that
long. Our board consists of two gentlemen from Los Angeles, one from Orange County, and two from San Diego. With this said, there was a lot of traveling back and forth for us and many others for meetings. Now, onto costs for a meet such as this. The registration fee of $70.00 must cover the costs of many items that are free to registrants, such as custom license plates, factory badge pins, the 44 page printed program, all of the event space at the hotel, all of the A/V rentals, fine point judges hats and lunch, blue and red ribbons, patches for the national club vests, misc printing costs, repair tent rental, the website rental and design, misc office supplies, etc, etc. (I'm sure I'm missing many other items!) AS for parking, registered guests paid nothing for parking if they were staying at the host hotel, and $10.00 per day if registered but not staying at the hotel. Anyone coming to the hotel would normally pay a max of $16.00 per day for parking. I can tell you that there is no convention hotel anywhere in California with free parking. In closing, let me say that those who attended had a ball and we of the Pacific A's really enjoyed hosting the 2011 MARC National Meet.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

.... In closing, let me say that those who attended had a ball and we of the Pacific A's really enjoyed hosting the 2011 MARC National Meet.

Gary, thank you so very much for your friendship & hospitality! Also a tremendous thank you to Ron, Chris, Bob, and all the 'team' that did just a remarkable job. It was indeed fun and it was a super value for the money I spent. Thanks again!!

[Steve Ciccalone]

Gary, I'm very sorry I couldn't make it. I wanted to see your coupe.

As the former National Meet Coordinator of the Antique Motorcycle Club of America, I know exactly how hard you guys worked to make it a great meet. Unfortunately, you can't please all the people all the time and some other folks are just simply plain cheap. I spoke with some of the "usual suspects" and they all said it was a terrific time.

Like the commercial goes, "the smile on Ron Rude's face when he received his award - priceless!"

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

Originally Posted by bill o'brien

my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

i am not a member of either model a club. Kudos to those of you who are! There are a lot of benefits to being a member of these great clubs.

i feel that the national meet should be open to anyone who is willing to pay the fee to walk in and not be a member. our hobby certainly could use more members. the kinds of people who dont want to turn our beloved model a's into hot rods w chevy 350's in them! (i think 99% of us can agree with that )

why not encourage more people, non model a people to come and see how wonderful these cars are and how much fun they can be?

So you charge $15 per person to walk in and open it to everyone. Would be a much larger turnout and might end up making more $$$ in the end.

Thanks for hearing me out

perhaps you can explain this to me. These meets are expensive and those of us that are members and pay our own way are being saddled by the free loaders.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Richard in Anaheim CA

perhaps you can explain this to me. These meets are expensive and those of us that are members and pay our own way are being saddled by the free loaders.

That is an excellent point. After thinking about this for a few moments, I am thinking that even if 100 extra people decided to "drop in" on a Meet, their extra $1,500 of revenue would not be worth the hassle of offering this option. I too think that folks either need to step up, ...or step back and pay the proper fees to attend. As most of the people who attended this Meet will attest, it was a financial "value" for us however anything in life is only worth what you are willing to invest in it. Model A owners can still have fun with their Model A even without attending a National Meet.

[d.j. moordigian]

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Gary,

Thinking about what you said, also Brent, you guy's are correct, the extra revenue
is not worth the trouble!
Your club/people put on a first rate show, the facility was great and also the classes!
The people that didn't attend missed out.

Thanks again, Dudley

[Jim Mason]

Is the close proximity (in time) of the joint MARC/MAFCA meet on the west coast a factor? fwiw,jm

[peters180a/170b]

How do you figure what [FREE LOADERS] are costing you???? They are not getting any food for free? Hotel is not free ? Please explain what are they getting FREE ? To walk around the parked "A"s in the parking lot? Walk around the flea market for FREE? Registration you charge ! Goodie bag is not free !Diner is not FREE at the last nite! So to stop by and shoot the shit with other Model "A' owners you want to charge?? So i say pick a spot with a TALL FENCE around the meet and a LARGE DOOR with a pass word ...You could at least charge what a locale car show will charge to enter $10.00. or if its so much cost then don't do it any more. See you at Hershey where you can JUST WALK IN and say HELLOOOOOOO.for FREE

[Roadster62]

Glad you posted that first Peter. I've paid as much as $20.00 to walk around local shows, both stone stock and Hot Rod only, can't understand why your Model A clubs wouldn't want the extra gate fee to allow people to LOOK AT THE CARS. Maybe you could ask a few more bucks if the person wishes to ask the owner a question, extra fee if said person has a camera, extra service fee if they bought something at the flea market. I see were money could be made.

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

How do you figure what [FREE LOADERS] are costing you???? They are not getting any food for free? Hotel is not free ? Please explain what are they getting FREE ? To walk around the parked "A"s in the parking lot? Walk around the flea market for FREE? Registration you charge ! Goodie bag is not free !Diner is not FREE at the last nite! So to stop by and shoot the shit with other Model "A' owners you want to charge?? So i say pick a spot with a TALL FENCE around the meet and a LARGE DOOR with a pass word ...You could at least charge what a locale car show will charge to enter $10.00. or if its so much cost then don't do it any more. See you at Hershey where you can JUST WALK IN and say HELLOOOOOOO.

[Jason in TX]

This isn't a car show. It's a meeting. Running a car show with gate attendants, police security, bathrooms, music in the parking lot is what this MEETING is not. It's more of a deep dive into Model A accuracy. It's not people sitting in lawn chairs behind their cars.

I think that two things are being discussed here. One side is saying hold a car show for the public and the other side is saing this is a club meeting. Walking around outside the club meeting and seeing the cars is totally fine and FREE but the meeting is not open to the public and is not intended to be an "Antique and Classic Car Show.". That is for another weekend.

[Jim Mason]

Also...if you can't get 100 people to show up for free (as now) how many would show up at $10 a head? As jason said, it ain't a car show, it's a MARC (or MAFCA) national meeting...fwiw,jm

[peters180a/170b]

Bear Mountain in N.Y. over looking the Hudson River EVERY WED. all summer long ..The smallest amount of cars 200,, the most OVER 500 cars. $4.00 each person to enter without a car in the show and $10.00 a car to show. Music , food , raffel and awards. I helped with judging , class the cars as they entered ,and set up the classes at Mamaroneck Car show for 13 years. [FREE]! The last show i helped with had 600 show cars and they made $29,000.00 profit. Not bad for a locale car show with people sitting around in their lounge chairs behind their cars.The reason i helped?? VETS, HOSPITAL,GIRL+BOY SCOUTS,COLLEGE HELP FOR NURSES AND FOOD BANK along with other locale charities.And i don't get a tax write off...l.o.l.,,,WELL this makes my 1000 post..Happy Birthday to me...

[Gary Karr]

Jason and Jim, you both are correct. My career is event planning. Most folks have no idea what is involved in planning an event; from an afternoon car show to a pancake breakfast to a National Meet. Nobody is talking about insurance issues here. That is the main reason that you must be a member of MARC to attend their National Meet as well as a member of MAFCA to attend theirs. When wasw the last time you attended an annual business meeting of one of the thousands of national associations without being a member. Why should a MARC or MAFCA Meet be any different?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Gary, a proposal to MARC about handling all the upcoming National Meets (--for a salary!!) would be something that would interest me. While I definitely feel I giot a huge value for my $$ amount spent at y'alls meet, the situation is that these events cost lots of money to attend AND finding suitable volunteer assistance is sometimes stressful. I am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong!! I'm just saying a professional event coordinator could take the event up to the next level. Allow the SIG's to still handle their own venues within the Meet. I think a Pro E/C could definitely make money for National by being able to negociate with hotels and vendors who serve the Meet participants.

[Gary Karr]

That's a good point Brent and I remember it being discussed last year after French Lick. The only way that it would work is to have an event planner on the MARC or MAFCA payroll otherwise it would drive the costs up even further. All national event planners and destination management companies I work with put a mark of 40% on everything which would price one of these national meets out of site!

[PO51]

Wanted to make a few comments about the event. First of all thank you to the members who put it on, great job and a great deal of work.
This was my first National Event and I had a great , time don't know if I will have a chance to attend another. My wife was recovering from knee replacement surgery so she spent time in the room or out by the pool in wonderful San Diego. Yes it did cost us some $$$, but it was a vacation for us, I've spent alot more and did not enjoy myself nearly as much! Great cars, great people and a great setting.

[Roadster62]

Is to too early to ask how many "Fine Point" cars will be at Hershey in October? I know I won't get yelled at for looking at them there.

[peters180a/170b]

There was 1 last year at Ridgefield Conn. locale meet and might be there again with the other 3 ,180A's and might have company with another 1 too. But we were out done by that 1907 Model "K" FORD owner....L.O.L. and the 1903 FORD"A" and the 1905 Ford and so on...L.O.L.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

That's a good point Brent and I remember it being discussed last year after French Lick. The only way that it would work is to have an event planner on the MARC or MAFCA payroll otherwise it would drive the costs up even further. All national event planners and destination management companies I work with put a mark of 40% on everything which would price one of these national meets out of site!

Having been involved from both sides, national and local, of national meets in the past my wife and I have also discussed this possibility before. To what extent could an event planners expense be offset by reduced cost? Would not an experienced person be able to negotiate better hotel "deals", find more sponsors. know where to get "freebees", and in other ways reduce expenses? From the local club prospective what is offered is requirements and what is wanted is knowledge which is not currently available from the national.

[peters180a/170b]

Jerry and ALL i have no problem with the cost of a National Meet [Hotel ,Reg. , Diner and what ever outings. I also have no problem with someone WITH a Model "A" no matter who ,what or where he comes from as long as he has a Model "A' to stop by and checkout all whats there at the meet without a charge. [Parking lot, flea market and so on] .I do have a problem with people who want to charge someone right up front that might JOIN the club if he SEES what its all about.All he ask is to walk around.There are quite a few that talk about joining both clubs together because of membership dropping off and the cost is going up.Sooner or later its going to put each club pricing itself out.I for one can not figure you have 2 clubs for Model "A' s and more"A" owners are in A.A.C.A. then the 2. Now why is that? What drives them away? GREAT MAG. , members , National meets .I ask that question all the time coming home from a A.A.C.A. meet ..Are you a member of MARC or MAFCA too? NO ,,that's their answer and or i don't see a reason to///dumb answer i would say! And they just don't want to join???why is that?? Like i said I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE COST OF A MEET. What you get is well worth it! Just don't make it hard for maybe a future member!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

Having been involved from both sides, national and local, of national meets in the past my wife and I have also discussed this possibility before. To what extent could an event planners expense be offset by reduced cost? Would not an experienced person be able to negotiate better hotel "deals", find more sponsors. know where to get "freebees", and in other ways reduce expenses? From the local club prospective what is offered is requirements and what is wanted is knowledge which is not currently available from the national.

Jerry, like you, my wife, my two teenage kids, and myself planned & hosted the 52 Annual Model T Ford Club Int'l meet in our town without the aide of a local club or chapter. I must tell you the only two times in my life I have really been extremely nervous is when I walked down the aisle and said "I Do!" at my wedding, ...and the 2nd was when I sat down in that Holiday Inn office and signed on the dotted line guaranteeing the Meet. I now know what I would do different at the next meet, --and my wife has told me that I can do another Meet again, ....with my next wife! THAT ain't gonna happen either!!

.