How to Remove the Lever from Houdaille Shocks?

[rogeroadster]

I'm hoping soneone out there can tell me how to remove the lever from my Houdaille shocks. They are unknown year but probably 42-48 fronts and rears with the external adjuster. It looks like the are simply pressed on to a splined shaft but for once I thought I'd ask before I ruined the first one figuring out how to do the rest of them.

[Charlie ny]

Roger,
I've had the pleasure of visiting Bill Wzorek at his shop and if you saw the
press and tooling required to do what you want to do , plus probably install different
arms to suit your build, I'd send them to Bill and let him do it.
By the way you'd need a Sherpa guide to scale his mountain of core shocks.
Charlie ny

[Bruce in southern OH]

Rogeroadster, I also was hoping you would get an answer, will look for the information and post,

[oldrelics]

There was a neat article in I believe Rod and Custom mag a number of years ago showing the process of rebuilding these shocks. The arms are pressed off but the whirligig to hold the shock while doing it was specialized for the job. I always wanted to try one myself but just never got around to it.

[rogeroadster]

I'll bump this back up to the top in hopes that someone can offer me a little more insight on this process.

[NealinCA]

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rogeroadster - I love the T roadster in your avatar, is it yours? I'd like to see more pics if so.

I would also like to know the answer to your shock arm question.

Neal

[jerry grayson]

Originally Posted by rogeroadster

I'll bump this back up to the top in hopes that someone can offer me a little more insight on this process.

CharlieNY gave you about all the answer there is. It takes special tooling to take the arms off and is not a DIY project.

[Don]

Never say never,SOME ONE SAID ,GIVE ME A LONG ENOUGH FULCURM AND I CAN LIFT THE WORLD,

[G.M.]

I saw a picture of a tool to remove the arms years ago. If I remember it was two wedges that were pulled together to force the arm off. I think it was a KR Wilson tool, but not sure. G.M.

[oldford2]

I tend to agree with CharlieNY. I had mine rebuilt by Lou Trinka before Bill Worzek took over the shop and I sort of remember him describing the process and the special tooling he made to remove the levers. A BEAR! Anyway, here is an old HAMB thread that narrates the struggle. John
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=275444

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...lle/index.html

[B-O-B]

Is this a mystery or what?
Scooter Maid never finished his tale as to what happened or did I fall asleep & miss something.?

[B-O-B]

OOPS sorry Scootermcrad

[rogeroadster]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

rogeroadster - I love the T roadster in your avatar, is it yours? I'd like to see more pics if so.

I would also like to know the answer to your shock arm question.

Neal

I will send you a PM about the roadster so as not to hijack my own thread.

[rogeroadster]

Originally Posted by oldford2

I tend to agree with CharlieNY. I had mine rebuilt by Lou Trinka before Bill Worzek took over the shop and I sort of remember him describing the process and the special tooling he made to remove the levers. A BEAR! Anyway, here is an old HAMB thread that narrates the struggle. John
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=275444

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...lle/index.html

Well see, I got a lot of info this time around. I also searched the HAMB but did not turn up the thread you referenced. It does look like a difficult job. I'm installing these on a model T and I want to modify the arm. Thanks everyone for your help.

[Bruce in southern OH]

There was an article in one of the V8 times, that is what I have been told, have to look up in archives. Now, like Don P says " never say never", tried to remove one, the pressed on arms comes off easy with a electric impact, split puller and heat. Now with that said the adjustment was sacrificed. With just the little bit of info you got rogeroadster that mentioned the two wedges "that I had not thought of " I will let Don P read this and he will have one made by morning, also he has a friend that will take them a part and replace just to say he could. rogeroadster, we will make the "secret" know to all!!! Remember it is a hobby for some.

[BILL WZOREK]

I have been sitting back reading this thread and have been trying to link to a part of a shock rebuilding article and can't make it Happen,( I NEVER WANT SOMEONE TO GET HURT OR BURNED )< as I have !!!!>So I will paraphrase The artical and try to get it as accurate as I can / Not knowing what Fluid has been put in the shocks over the years I think that this is how shock disassembly should be thought about.

The article starts off like this:

Thanks to the hydroscopic working fluid,the fine threads and the decades of exposure to the elements, most Houdailles require radical,heat-intensive methods of dissembly.

This is unfortunate,both because of its effect upon the metal and because of the real hazards involved.

Nearly all Houdaille
shocks used glycerin
as the working
fluid.Think about
what it means to
apply intense heat
to a container filled
with glycerin,the
oxygen-bearing
constitutent of
nitro-glcerin.

At least one Houdaille restorer suffered second and third-degree burns when the reservoir cover exploded off the shock he was heating with a torch.

To minimize risk,we have developed the following guidelines.They are offered without a guarantee:in other words.you can do exactly as we say and still get hurt.

* If possible,remove the reservoir cover (some times called the outer cover or reservoir cup ) before proceeding.
* If you cannot undo the cover,by all means remove the filler plug.Drill out the plug if you have to.
*Loosen the rotor so that it turns a few degrees on its bearing. this should improve the odds that the working chambers vent.
* Wear eye protection and protective clothing.
*Do not heat an assembled shock with a torch.Insted,place the shock in a brazier,barbeque pit,a charcoal-filled hole in the ground,etc.,and retreat to a safe distance.

The article goes on:

We "cook" the partially disassembled shock in the charcoal fire for for three or four hours to burn out the seals and glycerin.Then,follow the example of a noted shock rebuilder (NOT ME ) we drop the shock into a pail of cold water.Within seconds,a loud "burp" signals that the water has gotten inside the unit.the shock is retrieved and,while still too hot to touch,dissambled.

HEATING SHOCKS RELEASES NOXIOUS FUMES.WORK IN A WELL VENTED AREA.

I think this article kinds of explains some of the hazards of working on these shocks!!!
I have received 1st & 2nd* burns working on them.

The worst was the day the shop was still cool so I was wearing a hooded sweatshirt
there was a loud noise on the radio that scared me and made me turn in that direction. THANK GOD < even if you don't believe> at that moment all He** broke loose, HOT oil all over the side of my hood with some bouncing off hitting my hands
it was after that happen I found this article.

And to Bruce in southern OH. YES this is a HOBBY for SOME But that is no reason why someone should be hurt or even killed enjoying the HOBBY they love!!!!!!

As far as removing the arms with proper pullers I pull them off COLD.

Sorry about the long explanation but I thought it was time to say!

So EVERYONE be safe and lets safely enjoy this great Hobby.

[Jack E/NJ]

Bill Wzorek>>>Nearly all Houdaille shocks used glycerin as the working fluid. Think about what it means to apply intense heat to a container filled with glycerin, the oxygen-bearing constitutent of nitro-glcerin.>>>

Bill:
I appreciate your insights on this. The hazard involved can be just as great or even greater with working fluids other than glycerin. The reference to nitro-glycerin might lead some into believing otherwise.

Jack E/NJ

[BILL WZOREK]

Jack:

I have received a set of shocks that some one tried to free up putting GASOLINE in to try and get them to move.

Others Diesel fuel / Kerosene & who knows knows what else.

This can be a fun HOBBY but always remember SAFETY 1st.

Maybe I am getting older and can see the lite flickering at the end of the tunnel & thinking of all the DUMB things I have done & got a way with.Has me on a Safty 1st. personal safety 1st regiment !!!

[Bruce in southern OH]

Live in Proctorville, OHIO, live 45 minutes from you guess it, NITRO, WV, working for Rhone-Poulak as a contractor we removed the remnants of the WWII Nitro plant in Institute, WV.
.
Danger: Any item that is capped/sealed and a source of energy is applied will have a phase change(behavior), some for the good and some for the bad. You have seen lately the Dry-Ice explosions in LA. simple examples of expanding molecules. Now everyone here has heated a brake drum, with the thought of the gas tank near by, old asbestos fibers, cut off wheels with sparks flying every where, the list goes on and on, we try to be safe. Comparing the chemical composition of Nitro and making the reference to the combination is a stretch. I have found that A shocks used (maybe) glycerin and most V8 shocks used castor oil, everything is open to discussion and documentation.

Finally get to use my Chemistry Class:
Nito
The industrial manufacturing process often uses a nearly 1:1 mixture of concentrated sulfuric acid and concentrated nitric acid. This can be produced by mixing white fuming nitric acid—a quite expensive pure nitric acid in which the oxides of nitrogen have been removed, as opposed to red fuming nitric acid, which contains nitrogen oxides—and concentrated sulfuric acid. More often, this mixture is attained by the cheaper method of mixing fuming sulfuric acid, also known as oleum—sulfuric acid containing excess sulfur trioxide—and azeotropic nitric acid (consisting of about 70 percent nitric acid, with the rest being water).
The sulfuric acid produces protonated nitric acid species, which are attacked by glycerin's nucleophilic oxygen atoms. The nitro group is thus added as an ester C-O-NO2 and water is produced. This is different from an aromatic nitration reaction in which nitronium ions are the active species in an electrophilic attack on the molecule's ring system.
The addition of glycerin results in an exothermic reaction (i.e., heat is produced), as usual for mixed-acid nitrations. However, if the mixture becomes too hot, it results in "runaway", a state of accelerated nitration accompanied by the destructive oxidation of organic materials by the hot nitric acid and the release of poisonous nitrogen dioxide gas at high risk of an explosion. Thus, the glycerin mixture is added slowly to the reaction vessel containing the mixed acid (not acid to glycerin). The nitrator is cooled with cold water or some other coolant mixture and maintained throughout the glycerin addition at about 22 °C (72 °F), much below which the esterification occurs too slowly to be useful. The nitrator vessel, often constructed of iron or lead and generally stirred with compressed air, has an emergency trap door at its base, which hangs over a large pool of very cold water and into which the whole reaction mixture (called the charge) can be dumped to prevent an explosion, a process referred to as drowning. If the temperature of the charge exceeds about 30 °C (86 °F) (actual value varying by country) or brown fumes are seen in the nitrator's vent, then it is immediately drowned
.
Glycerol (or glycerine, glycerin) is a simple polyol (sugar alcohol) compound. It is a colorless, odorless, viscous liquid that is widely used in pharmaceutical formulations.
.
Now that I am on every watch list by government, are we having fun, just show us the tooling that is used for arm removal, I think that is all Rogeroadster asked at the thread start, don't even remember if he was going to do it, just how it was done, everyone have a SAFE day, going for a drive in the 34 on the last 70 degree day for a while

[BILL WZOREK]

Bruce:
I understand that you know much bigger words then I do so YOU" WIN"
I just wanted people to understand some of the danger and that care is needed.

BUT what I can not understand is how some one so smart does not know what a gear puller looks like. Different gear pullers for different shocks and arms.
This is the last that I am going to say on this subject , if you have some thing to say , say it and lets put this to rest.
Now lets just enjoy the hobby and this great site.

[Bruce in southern OH]

Bill, I plan on sending my 34 front shocks to you, have photo's in the other thread about what a 33 shock looks like, talked to you at Hershey, day before the rain. Warm day, great people, great site! always appreciate your knowledge and advice.

[BILL WZOREK]

ALL is Good,Do you need me to PM you my address?

BILL W

[Bruce in southern OH]

Yes, that will work, then when someone looks in the search of related items "shocks" it will appear.

[rogeroadster]

Bill, I'm wondering if, with all your experience working on these shocks you would be willing to share with us how you successfully remove and replace the levers on a Houdaille shock? I don't ever intend to rebuild one but I see them for sale (repo or rebuilt) usually without the arm installed. So I figure I am capable of removing the arm and reinstalling it but someone with past experience could save me some heartache. Thanks, Roger

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Jack:

I have received a set of shocks that some one tried to free up putting GASOLINE in to try and get them to move.

Others Diesel fuel / Kerosene & who knows knows what else.

This can be a fun HOBBY but always remember SAFETY 1st.

Maybe I am getting older and can see the lite flickering at the end of the tunnel & thinking of all the DUMB things I have done & got a way with.Has me on a Safty 1st. personal safety 1st regiment !!!

[Mike B]

Found on google...just have to keep track of what ya clicking on, but seems to be a manual on the shocks.:

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...lle/index.html

[BILL WZOREK]

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rodgerodster:

I said I was done with this thread But you asked soooooooooooo.

You have to get a gear puller / Ball joint puller the type that pushes in the center of the shaft & pulls up on the arm.
( the size of the puller depends on which shock. You have to deside )

If the shock has a adjuster / it needs to be removed.
Install a Fine thread 1/2" bolt to push aginst. install puller tighten bolt on puller.
If you have a air wrench it seems to work best because of the impacting action of the tool.
Use a few choise words and add the tap or rap of a hammer on the arm and it will come off.

I Remove them cold.

If you want you can send me the shocks you want the arms off of ( you pay the shipping both ways ) I will remove them @ no charge.

[rogeroadster]

Bill -

Thanks so much for sharing your method. As a one time high school metal shop/auto shop teacher I take great joy in sharing knowledge and skills with others and really appreciate your response to this question. Rest assured that if I screw up the first one I'll gladly be sending the other 3 to you for your generous offer.

My other concern is with re-installing the lever. How does one re-install the lever without causing serious internal damage to the shock (shaft)? Can you just press it on to the shaft? Could you please elaborate on that process? I understand the importance of clocking the lever, etc. but how do you support the shock so as not to damage the shaft?

Thanks, Roger

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

rodgerodster:

I said I was done with this thread But you asked soooooooooooo.

You have to get a gear puller / Ball joint puller the type that pushes in the center of the shaft & pulls up on the arm.
( the size of the puller depends on which shock. You have to deside )

If the shock has a adjuster / it needs to be removed.
Install a Fine thread 1/2" bolt to push aginst. install puller tighten bolt on puller.
If you have a air wrench it seems to work best because of the impacting action of the tool.
Use a few choise words and add the tap or rap of a hammer on the arm and it will come off.

I Remove them cold.

If you want you can send me the shocks you want the arms off of ( you pay the shipping both ways ) I will remove them @ no charge.

[rogeroadster]

Mike -

Thanks for researching and posting this link. This is a wealth of information.

Originally Posted by Mike B

Found on google...just have to keep track of what ya clicking on, but seems to be a manual on the shocks.:

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...lle/index.html

[hotcoupe]

mike, thanx for posting the service bulletin, it looks complete except for page #38. does anyone have a copy of the service bulletin that could post page #38?
tom

[BILL WZOREK]

Rodger:
Yes you can press them on / Clean up both splines ,apply a little loctite and press on the arm untill it is flush with end of shaft.

[rogeroadster]

OK Thanks for your help. I'll report back with either my success or my failure.

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Rodger:
Yes you can press them on / Clean up both splines ,apply a little loctite and press on the arm untill it is flush with end of shaft.