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Old 01-30-2018, 01:33 AM   #1
wingski
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Default getting doors to fit correctly

I removed the back of the front seat in my ’29 cabriolet and ran a double strand of aircraft cable from where the top attaches on one side to the other. I put a tire bar between the strands and started twisting. I twisted that thing until there was a lot of pull drawing those two sides together and locked the tire bar in place under the wood cross brace behind where the top of the seat had been.

The top portion of my car did not pull together. How is this even possible? It has to be the convertible top frame that is holding the two sides apart, but I thought the top frame would bow enough to allow the door bottoms to line up with the body. They each still stick out about 3/4”, and it doesn’t seem possible that the top frame is so sturdy that it won’t allow me to pull it together. The only other thing that could be keeping the top of the body from pulling together is that wooden cross brace that goes from side to side under the shelf behind the seat, but it is at least a foot behind the back of the door.

I am drilling a 2’ hole about 3” deep in one end of a 4x4 so the top of my big screw jack will fit into it. Then, I am going to fit the head of that jack into the hole and put the whole shebang across the car at the base of the pillar that each door shuts against. I figure that I can spread the bottom of the body about 1” to 1 1/2”.

I’ll leave the cable adjusted snug at the top so there can be no spread at the top when I try to spread the bottom.

I can’t stand doors that don’t line up perfectly, but I don’t want to damage this car.

Does anyone have a better idea of how to do get those door bottoms aligned other than what I am doing?

Please don’t give me a bunch of crap about leaving them alone. Those doors are not right until they are lined up flush with the body. I will appreciate any suggestions as long as they don’t suggest getting another car.

Mike
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Old 01-30-2018, 01:57 AM   #2
Bill G
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

I am having trouble visualizing what you are trying to align.

The bottom vertical edge of my driver's door was not meeting at the bottom of the door pillar behind the seat. I had about a half inch gap at the bottom, but the top of the door edge near the roof line was meeting and so was the latch. I pushed with my shoe on the lower edge while holding the top corner open with my hands. Now the door closes flush with the door pillar from top to bottom. I know mine is a Tudor and not the same body as yours, but if that is what you are trying to align, consider that method.
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Old 01-30-2018, 01:59 AM   #3
wingski
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

It’s been suggested that I use wire diagonally from the top front of each door to the bottom rear and tighten that wire like I did with the aircraft cable. I might end up doing that, however I’m afraid that the wire would not allow the door panels to fit correctly. Also, I really don’t want to take those door panels off again. They’re a bitch to nail back on.

Mike
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Old 01-30-2018, 02:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

Bill, I tried pushing on the lower rear corner while holding the doors openo with no luck. The doors on this cabriolet are 90% wood with just a metal skin. There is so much more wood in the doors of a ’29 cabriolet compared to a ’30 or ’31 that it’s almost unbelievable.

The back lip or edge of the doors looks perfect. The front edge of the back of the door opening looks perfect except the top of the body seems to be a little further out than it should be.

I thought for sure that the aircraft cable would do the trick, but it didn’t.

Mike
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

if the door is out at the back bottom edge, you can twist the door a little. there is diagonal brace in the door remove the three screws glue some tooth picks in the holes. I use a small clamp or vise grips to hold the brace in place as I twist the door, once I get it where I want it I reinstall the screws. all 68 A and B have about the same amount of wood in them with the exception of the upper inner panel the A`s had wood and the B`s had metal.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

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I have to wonder if your cables are attached too far towards the back and the body is preventing the movement you are looking for. When I go to fix mine I will pull it together and then find a way to keep it there, possibly by welding metal braces behind the upholstery. I have the same problem on my roadster and will someday correct it, but its my belief the problem lies with the open car bodies getting wider at the top over time. I wish someone here would respond with the correct measurement for open cars where the top mounts.

There is no way I would try to push the bottom of the body apart until I was convinced there had been MAJOR body damage in the past. Even then I would be wary of doing it.
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:21 AM   #7
wingski
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

The cables are attached as far forward as you can go. I threaded them through the hinge of the convertible top frame on each side which is right at the top of the beginning of the rear body. You would think that if this open body had spread over the years, it would pull back together easily. It might not stay that way without the cable holding it together, but, at least, it would allow me to see what the doors should look like when properly aligned.

I was amazed that the thing didn’t pull together easily. It makes so much more sense to me to adjust that top spread instead of twicking the doors. I know I’m missing something really important, but you have convinced me not to try to spead that body at the bottom.

I’m going to do more checking on that wood cross member that goes from side to side underneath the deck in front of the rumble seat. The body has not spread where the rumble seat lid is because the gaps between the lid and the body are all even.

This problem is defying physics and really has me in a quandry.

I know that if I figure it out I’ll be able to help others with same problem. So, I’ll keep at it.

Mike
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

there is a turn buckle in the 1/4 that hold the door post in place. you can adjust that too.
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:30 PM   #9
wingski
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

I’ve used the turnbuckles in the rear quarter panels to line up those rear pillars for the doors and have the gap lined up perfectly.

Thanks, any input is worthwhile,

Mike
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

Hi, Mike...I am at the place in the build of my '30 Cabriolet where I am fitting the body pieces on the wooden frame, so although I don't have the experience that many people have on this forum, I'm living the "fit and alignment" every day of the pieces you're wanting to modify.

I don't know whether you built your car up from the wooden side rails and wood cross rails, but these are all structural items in the Cabriolet body, and if I were you, I would not try to modify the width of the body that fits on the side or cross rails or the top of the body around the back rail where the top attaches...to do so could potentially damage the wood joints or even the body sheet metal.

Your desire to have the bottom of the doors match the body can be achieved by contouring the doors to meet the body, not the other way around.

Try this--take off the trim panel of each door (the one with fabric, a pocket, and I believe on your car, a strip of carpet at the bottom). You should see a metal strip running diagonally from the top (hinge side) piece of wood to the lower (latch side) piece of wood. If your car doesn't have this piece you can make something similar out of a thin piece of strap steel and attach the upper part with screws to the wood at the top of the door.

Then follow JW Hash's directions above about how to clamp the bottom of the metal strap once you've gently pulled or pushed in the lower door edge (latch side). Once you are comfortable with the new curvature of the door, drill some new pilot holes in the lower door wood and strap, put in some screws to hold the strap secure, and put back on the door trim.

Don't know if that all makes sense, but I think that all of your door issues can be resolved by using these straps to re-contour the doors.

Hope this makes sense and works for you!
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:54 PM   #11
wingski
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

Hi Don, thanks for the advice. My doors have a wood diagonal strap in place of a metal one, and I don’t think the screws in the wood strap would hold a new door curvature. However, I do have some flat metal stock around so I could make new straps. I am pretty sure that will fix the door alignment.

Like I said before, my ’29 is basically a prototype for the cabriolets that came after it. I’ve compared diagrams of the wood in the doors in later cabriolets to mine and mine has more wood than a ’30 or ’31. All my wood looks original and like I said has a wood diagonal strap. I’m sure it didn’t take Henry very long before he realized that a wood strap wouldn’t hold those doors in alignment and replaced it with metal.

That’s the fun thing or not about this ’29, it is a first. There were so many ideas tried out on this car that would prove to be inadequate or just plane wrong. Add in the fact that it is Canadian and you have a real puzzle.

I love puzzles, but I don’t like them when one of the original pieces is not quite right. I’m running into that fairly often with this car. This cabriolet is not like any car I’ve ever had before, and it is mind-boggling. However, it is also a challenge, and I love challenges.

Thanks again,

Mike
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:41 PM   #12
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

The turnbuckle is a structure piece and is not for adjusting the body. The take the force of the top and keep the top from ripping the car apart. When the cowl moves it creates a lot of force at the triple hinges in the fore aft direction.

To adjust the in out of the doors you have to change the height of the upper panel with shims under the sill to upper panel brackets. This effectively changes the width at the top. Up makes it more narrow at the top.
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Old 02-01-2018, 12:06 PM   #13
wingski
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

Ok, I’ve removed the passenger’s door panel and took the screws out of that diagonal metal strap. You would think that that door would easily twist so the back lower edge wouldn’t stick out away from the body. Wrong! That door is just not that flexible. Even when I push in on that back corner, there is a lot of resistance. It will push in far enough so everything lines up, and it looks great until I reless the pressure. Then, it comes right back out. There is so much pressure trying to straighten that lower corner back out that I can’t imagine how repositioning those scews on that diagonal strap is going to hold.

If that strap went all the way from the top front corner to the back rear corner of the door, it might be able to do the job. However, that strap connects to the front of the door a good three inches below where that middle door hinge is. I’m thinking about getting some real thin braided aircraft cable and running a two strand loop from the top front corner to the bottom rear corner. Then, I can use a small flat piece of metal to twist that cable and tighten it.

The only problem I’m having is figuring out where to attach each end of the cable. I’m afraid that just looping the ends around wood screws and tightening them won’t cut it. I’m pretty sure the wood screws would pull out.

Any ideas?

Mike
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Old 02-01-2018, 07:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: getting doors to fit correctly

Sounds like you may be trying to do to much to soon. I would load up the cables and then let the body sit for a day or two. Then see how much it moves. Doing this over a couple of weeks may fix your problem.

JP
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