Non-Model A oil usage

[Jeff/Illinois]

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[Gerard]

Jeff , When I came to this side of the ocean 5 years a go The car dealer here ( bought a new Hyundai ) he tried to convince me that I had to do a oil change every 5000 km. When I asked why ?? back home I only changed oil once a year . Oh well here everything is different . Yea OK but the ASTM spec's here are the same as were I am from. I also told him that I have always bought new cars since the last 35 years and never had a oil related problem and drove an average of 25000 km a year traded my cars in at an average km reading around 250000 km NEVER any problem.
So Mr dealer all the stories about changing oil every 3 or 5 thousand miles ! I considder BS.

[norson]

I can't tell you on synthetics, but I worked as a factory rep for an import. They kept increasing the service interval to 7,500 miles. Sorry I don't buy it. I think they've done it to show a "reduced cost of ownership" for sales advertising purposes. I'd prowl the service departments looking for cars with the valve covers off. I'd check the milage on the clean ones and the dirty ones. If you do that enough you'll change your oil at 3,000 miles. The worse ones were the lease return cars. You wouldn't believe a valve train could get that gummed up in just 30,000 miles. I use only the factory auto trans fluid too. Any used car I buy I pump a case of new fluid though it. I use ford in a ford. Honda in a Honda. It makes a real difference in how it shifts and I think it's cheap insurance. Just my 2c. Norm

[RcT]

Jeff, I drive a 2001 BMW 525 wagon on a daily basis. It calls for synthetic oil, which I use (pricey) It holds 6 qts. for this big 6 cylinder car, and I go by the BMW reccommended 15,000 mile intervals. The car now has 127k miles and runs strong and I will add 1/2 quart at 7500 miles. Works fine for me.

[steve wv]

I just purchased a 2012 Lincoln MKT with ecobost the owners manual says change every year or 10000 miles my 2005 Town Car says every 7500 my wife's 2005 Expedition says every 5000 I have changed the oil in my wife's Ford and my town car every 3000 miles our car dealer sends me coupons so I get a discount on the synthetic oil $19.95 with filter our last 3 vehicles we had I did the same every 3000 miles 300000 on a 96 Explorer 275000 97 Explorer and 176000 on a 2000 Lincoln Navigator, I never changed spark plugs in any of them all three are still running and looked like new when I sold them, oil is the cheapest thing u can buy for your car

Steve
1929 Tudoor 1926 Roadster 1926 Touring 1919 Centerdoor 1915 Speedster

[Modelakid31]

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I have a 91 jeep wrangler renegade with an inline 6 cyl. 4.0 and I change my oil every 2500 to 3500 miles or every 3 to 4 months. I use castrol GTX 10W-30.

For a newer car I would every 4 to 5 thousand miles.

[allison-tech]

I usually change mine around 5k, and use a synthetic blend. However, I do it sooner if I think it needs it, it just depends on how dirty it looks, I don't like dirty oil in my svc. trk., as was stated before, it's cheap insurance.

[gweilbaker]

I change mine every 3000mi due to the fact it takes an hour to travel 10 miles to work.

I wish they would put chronometers on cars and schedule maintenance accordingly.

City miles- Car very worn, shows low mileage
Highway miles- Car looks OK, high mileage
Wife miles- Driven to hell until the dash light burns out.

GW

[Ross/Kzoo]

Originally Posted by gweilbaker

City miles- Car very worn, shows low mileage
Highway miles- Car looks OK, high mileage
Wife miles- Driven to hell until the dash light burns out.

GW

Observation------------priceless.

2000 4runner and 07 Camry. I change them both at 5000 miles. I do it myself and use fresh, not recycled oil.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by gweilbaker

I change mine every 3000mi due to the fact it takes an hour to travel 10 miles to work.

I wish they would put chronometers on cars and schedule maintenance accordingly.

City miles- Car very worn, shows low mileage
Highway miles- Car looks OK, high mileage
Wife miles- Driven to hell until the dash light burns out.

GW

This is essentially what Robert Sikorsky, SAE, states in his book "Drive it Forever"... short-trip / never warmed-up driving is the severest of service uses, short of driving through desert sand-storms.

If you are trading the vehicle in every three to five years, then the manufacturer's recommended / extended change interval is probably adequate.

If you want to make that five-figure investment last until YOU are ready for another vehicle ( or until rust claims it, if you live in a "salt-state" ), then I would go with the shorter oil-change intervals.

If you are running synthetic oil (read: expensive), then it might be worth while to have it analayzed periodically, and see at what mileage the oil is actually "worn-out"... once you have established a base-line, then you should be able to determine a change schedule and stick with it.... until there is a major change in your climate / driving habits...

I have a '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the 4.3 litre AMC-derived inliine six, with around 128,000 miles on it. I am the third owner, and the party before me owned it almost ten years, and stuck religiously to a 3,000 mile oil-change schedule, which amounted to twice a year for her driving habits. When I got the car, it had about 80,000 miles on it, and to this day, does not burn oil or smoke, nor does it require additional oil between changes... I plan to keep it until PennDOT's Car-B-Gone finishes it off...

Your results may vary...

[85930tudor]

I worked at a dealership and a Geo Tracker came in one morning on a hook. I was sent to check it out the repair order saying engine stalled will not restart. Shure enough It was locked up when I checked it.Pulled the dipstick out, it was cover with a substance heavier than tar . asked the customer how often the oil was changed she said never! the service engine light only came on this morning. It had 121,000 miles on it.....

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 85930tudor

I worked at a dealership and a Geo Tracker came in one morning on a hook. I was sent to check it out the repair order saying engine stalled will not restart. Shure enough It was locked up when I checked it.Pulled the dipstick out, it was cover with a substance heavier than tar . asked the customer how often the oil was changed she said never! the service engine light only came on this morning. It had 121,000 miles on it.....

Oh no, some people don't deserve to drive. And it was a she?

[Kurt in NJ]

I work at a Mercedes repair shop, the 98 on cars are on synthetic, the oil change "light" comes on at about 10,000 miles and we have many customers with over 250000 on their cars.
One diesed I had I didn't worry too much about changing the oil, when it got down 3 quarts I would add, the next time it got down 3 quarts I would change---about in the fall, it got driven a lot ,it worked out to 18-20,000 miles for the oil change, it had about 800,000 miles on it when I sold it running fine but rusty.

There was another customer that didn't believe in changing the oil---did it reluctantly every 100,000 miles, he drove 60,000+ miles a year, never lost an engine due to his lack of oil changes, but somewhere between 500,000 and 800,000 miles the car would be retired by outside forces---a deer, another car, a tree fell on 1 of his cars ----the old diesels he drove most times just had bypass filters and a full flow screen.

I use used filters and oil sometimes in my benz --when a customer wants a change and only had 100 miles on the last one I will "recycle" the oil and filter into my car---it is too much of a waste to dump the oil into the "dirty" oil.

A car with 8 quarts of oil can tolerate a longer change interval that one with just 4.

I will put different oil change intervals on the same model of car, much depends on the customer ---the one that comes in on the exact miles on the change sticker I will write for a higher milesge that the person that always comes in 2,000 +miles later.

[shall]

Full synthetic in a 2000 Corvette gets changed when the life meter reminds me. I have sent in for analysis at Blackstone (as I do all my vehicles from time to time) and the life meter is right on with breakdown of oil. Usually ends up between 4k-6K miles. 2006 Dodge truck with Hemi gets changed every 6K (semi synthetic). 2000 Toyota V6 (standard oil) every 6K. Just got the Model A but assume once or twice a year.

[mot]

my uncle had an old chevy truck and never changed the oil
my cousin when in high school decided to change it for him
when he drained it there was only one quart
so he pulled the pan ,and it was filled with sludge
the rods had a path through the sludge
the tappets were so loud you could hear him coming around the corner
and when he went to adjust them they destroyed the feeler gauge

[Patrick L.]

My family started in the auto business in 1918 and I've been in it for 50+ yrs which probably makes me pretty old fashioned, but, I see the inside of a fair number of engines in a years time.. I'm a firm believer in 3000 mile/6 month changes.. Like some others have said, oil/filters are cheap insurance.. That said, I still see engine failures from properly maintained vehicles..

[MrTube]

I own a 06 Pontiac Grandprix and an 06 Saturn Vue. I run 0W30 Mobil 1 in the Grandprix and change it every 8-9K miles. I run 0w20 Mobil 1 in the Vue which has a Honda 3.5L V6 in it and change it every 8-9K. I run K&N or Mobil 1 filters as both are the same thing, it depends on what I can find at the time. All filters are not created equally especially when your running them for a long time. We do 99% highway miles with our commute now. Back when we did a lot of stop and go driving I was changing it every 6K.

In my opinion which isn't worth anything, anyone doing 3K mile oil changes on any remotely modern vehicle which has a decent running engine even driven in the city is wasting oil and money.

An engine with a lot of mileage and a lot of blowby is a different story. A lot of blowby means a lot of carbon getting into the oil. This of course is my theory and could be wrong.

[Kevin in NJ]

Oil needs to be changed when it is full of dirt, or has broken down lubrication, or the additives are worn out.

Changing the oil in your A once a year is too soon if you are using a good detergent oil with additives. You are only wasting resources and money with frequent changes.

I believe I read that synthetic oils do not break down and lose their lubricating properties. They do run out of additives needed to protect the metals. This is why they are run longer.

If you do some google searches on how oil works you might get a different perspective on the oil you use in your engines. We have been programed to change the oil frequently as this is what the oil companies want as they make money only when you change your oil. Remember, the engine will not fail because of the oil going bad. The engine with 124,000 miles and no oil change also probably never had oil added to either. On the other hand, my brother and I were just looking at one of our A cams. The cam was in very good dimensional condition (about .001" wear), BUT the cam had acid etching pits on the lobes. This would be from long term use of oil where the additives went bad or did not have additives to prevent the acids. This cam would be a great regrind candidate.

[Uncle Bob]

Just some quick thoughts, nothing like a thorough discussion:
The crankcase functions, in part, like a septic tank. The primary reason to change crankcase oil is to get rid of accumulated contaminants. The notion of the oil "breaking down" is specious. It's a terminology that is not well defined, and as such will mean different things to different people. If we talk about the basic oil material itself, conventional oil rarely, if ever, breaks down (in a chemical sense), quality synthetics are even more stable. The molecules may be subjected to sheer, making smaller ones of the bigger ones, affecting viscosity, but unlikely with gear pumps. Heat may take a toll on some lighter molecules, "burning" them off, but that would cause the oil to thicken.

Back to the septic tank idea. The air filter keeps out rocks, birds, and little children, but other contaminants come about as a result of various chemical elements in the fuel as well as moisture in the air. Drain intervals would be best judged on operating conditions. SAE, for instance, defines stop and go driving as severe. Those of you who read manuals will note that there are often different intervals specified for various operating conditions. Unfortunately, many folks don't realize stop and go is more injurious to the engine than sustained, relative high speed. Stop and go relates in part as noted above by operating time as opposed to miles, but also, condensation is more likely to form because of lower relative operating temps.

There is reasonable rationalization for longer drain intervals today than say 30 or 40 years ago. In part it's better lubricant technology, but also, taking the lead out of gasoline did a lot to not only prolong exhaust system life, but also spark plug life (yes, better materials there have added life as well). Leaded fuels (more accurately chemicals added to lower the boiling point of lead) formed more acids that in part contaminated the oil. Also, fuels are more tightly regulated for sulphur content today (especially diesel fuel), so less acid and soot are produced. There's more but that should give those interested an idea.

Personally, given my belief in the septic tank analogy, I don't buy the usual reasons given for use of synthetic oils. The notion of longer drain intervals was originally used by synthetic marketers to rationalize the disparity in price. As use/production volumes have shifted toward synthetics the price differential has narrowed, so it's less of a motivator. Synthetics have particular advantage in low temperature start up conditions. Oil flow, particularly at start up, is critical. The SAE at one time published data supporting that approximately 80% of engine wear over the life of the "normally" operated passenger engine occured at startup. If you understand hydrodynamic lubrication it makes sense. A lighter viscosity oil, again at the lower operationg temp range, will also do it's part of the engine cooling better. And the lower fluid friction improves fuel economy. All of those things motivate recommendations from engine manufacturers more than the extended drain interval thing..........though that does enter into some marketing think. But synthetics have no better capability to hold contaminants than a conventional oil. And the additive systems for each type are effectively the same. Modern computer controlled fuel/spark and other operating perameters make for cleaner operating engines, and less contaminated oil. Older engines still have a greater relative probability of contaminating the oil, even with cleaner fuels.

Changing oil "too often" isn't necessarily a bad thing if disposed of correctly. I'm not sure that this applies to many of the quickie lube change places, but while the oil service is being performed additional inspections for leaks, belt and hose condition, undercarriage damage, tires, and so on, should be performed. Those inspections alone, irrespective of oil capabiltity, may be reason enough, particularly on higher mileage rigs, to do more frequent oil changes.

[Jim Brierley]

There was a recent article in our paper stating that oil is usually changed too often, I agree. I change my wife's Prius about every 6500, non-synthetic 5-40 (?). It now has 133,000 on it. I change my '99 F-250 diesel every 5,000 and the filter every-other change. One time I was traveling and the Ford went over 6,000, I sent in a sample and the report said everything fine, make no change in procedure. It now has 196,000. Change less, save importing, your engine will do just fine!