The Ford Barn

RalphG · 11-23-2017, 10:46 AM

I've inquired on other forums so thought I might try here too. If by some remote chance I do get around to welding some new sheet metal into my rusty 52 Merc, I was wondering how well the cheap little 110 volt AC (70amp) welders might work? Consensus so far seems to be I should save my money as they don't work well at all. Everybody recommends MIG but that is big money and more hassle than I want. I have an old 180 amp stick welder I've used for years on heavy metal but its way too hot for car fenders. (Yes, I tried).
https://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...er/A-p8538878e

51 MERC-CT · 11-23-2017, 11:09 AM

Of course years ago before the popularity and advantages of Tig.and Mig. primarily took over the field, Oxy/acet. gas welding was the only choice for sheet metal welding.
With a good set of aircraft type torches it is still a good way to go.
And yes, the consensus is right, save your money.

deuce_roadster · 11-23-2017, 11:10 AM

Do you have oxy/acy gas welding equipment? Get a 000 tip and practice on some sheetmetal. If you only weld like 1/2 inch and let it cool, hammer and dolly it to reverse the shrinkage that always occurs when you weld, go slow and you can do it like they used to before MIG and TIG were on the scene. That might be your cheapest alternative.
I hammer welded all the way around my avatar roadster before I owned my first MIG, now with experience I usually use TIG but that is not for beginners.
I would do that before using an inexpensive welder that has few adjustments. My 2 cents.

Charlie ny · 11-23-2017, 11:13 AM

Ralph,
How about staying with the vintage of the Merc.......try oxy acetylene.
No doubt it's a step backwards but it is fun and so 'back in the day'.
Charlie ny

rotorwrench · 11-23-2017, 11:16 AM

I still use oxy-acetylene but I have an aircraft type torch with the really small tips. If you have a set up with a larger torch, there are still some aircraft type torch sets available to add on. The great thing about O/A gas welding is that you don't need flux or shield gas since the torch supplies it's own. If you fit the pieces together well, you seldom need filler rod but RG45 is available at most welding supply shops.

I butt weld and use magnets or small #40 Clecos with metal strips to hold things together for tack up. I purchased David Gardeners DVD and it really opened up things for me. This is a sample https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8

flatheadmurre · 11-23-2017, 11:31 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Oxy/acetylene accepts a bit more rust to if patching something up.
TIG absolutely hates any kind of polution in the weld area.
I have no good experience of small mig welders...bought a Kempi single phase that is supposed to be a good unit but my 20 year old ESAB is way better in all aspects except weight.

rich b · 11-23-2017, 11:39 AM

Many years ago; one of my friends had an early Harbor Freight mig welder, not much bigger than a lunch box, hot wire, no contactor. It worked really great on sheet metal.
Rust repair, floor boards, wheel tubs, chopped tops, about anything bodywise was good.

I guess what I'm saying, it is not necessary to spend big money on good welder for something you may only use for one project. Just avoid flux core wire.

Another way; buy a decent Hobart Handler or similar small MIG welder; use it for the project; then sell it; bet you recoup most all of your money. Warning; you may just like having it around and decide to keep it.

Unless you are really good; wire welding, while not as ideal, is a lot easier and more forgiving on sheet metal than torch welding.

cas3 · 11-23-2017, 11:41 AM

30 year old miller, 220 volt mig, bought for only 200 bucks will out last me

19Fordy · 11-23-2017, 11:44 AM

Don't waste your money on a Harbor freight welder.
Just wondering.....can you rent a welder?

Johnnydidd · 11-23-2017, 11:54 AM

You should be able to rent one, I have Lincoln SP100 125volt, I use 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix, works great, Lincoln has some inexpensive mig welders, plus you can buy parts for them

51 MERC-CT · 11-23-2017, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Don't waste your money on a Harbor freight welder.
Just wondering.....can you rent a welder?

Yes, you can rent a welder, they get paid by the job or the hour.
Now a welding machine, that's another issue.

hop2it · 11-23-2017, 12:23 PM

i would recommend the eastwood 135 mig I used a flux core welder once which was a rental it sucked,would recommend using the75% 25%gas
doug

JSeery · 11-23-2017, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Don't waste your money on a Harbor freight welder.
Just wondering.....can you rent a welder?

Harbor Freight has a new line of welders that are getting high reviews. I don't own one (a HF welder) but found it interesting.

RalphG · 11-23-2017, 01:15 PM

Thanks for all the feedback (even if its negative) on the small AC stick welder. I have access to use my brother's mig but I just thought it would be handy to have a small unit like this AC stick welder in my own shop for infrequent use on projects that might come up. Save having to drive 8 miles with my parts to his shop to do the welding. Plus the hassle of using up welding gas and having to get expensive rental tanks re-filled in the big city.
No, I don't have oxy-acetylene equipment and have never used one. All I know is AC stick welders and heavy metal. When it comes to sheet metal it is good at burning holes.

flatford8 · 11-23-2017, 05:30 PM

I tried a rod called “ first strike” with a stick welder and it was usable but like others have said MIG or O/A was a lot easier....... Mark

tubman · 11-23-2017, 06:01 PM

I had one of those small 110 volt stick welders that I bought on the chance that it would work on sheet metal where my 225 Miller stick welder wouldn't. It didn't work at all, but I'll always remember it fondly, because I was able to trade it to a neighbor (who really wanted it for some reason) for a used 14' Alumacraft fishing boat.

rotorwrench · 11-23-2017, 06:03 PM

Just like the size of an O/A gas welding tip, the size of an arc welding rod governs the size of the weld pool. The thinner the metal, the smaller the weld pool you have to have to weld it up. Most arc rod is just too large a diameter to work for thin metal. It deposits too much filler to keep the pool small. With TIG, you can choose the size of electrode and the taper angle of that electrode to get just the right pool size for what ever you want to weld plus you can control the heat (amperage) with a foot pedal or thumb wheel. Wire feed welders can use some small filler wire but a person has to know exactly how fast to push the feed wire and how much amperage to control the weld size. With MIG you get a fast spot weld but the weld can end up pretty hard depending on the filler wire used. I end up spot welding it all together and the welds are harder to tamp down with a hammer and dolly. O/A welds are softer using RG45 and are easy to hammer down since they have a more shallow pool and don't need to have a high crown on the weld bead. Most welders start out with O/A then go on to other forms. MIG is excellent for production but takes a lot of practice to get the feed and heat set right for thin stuff. A lot of really good TIG welders start out on O/A since it is a good way to develop weld strategy. TIG adds in a lot more control than O/A gas but it takes a while to master all the things that you have at hand for that control plus you do have to be very clean with your materials, as was already mentioned.

The only problem I have with O/A is that it is very challenging to weld parts that are different thicknesses together. TIG is much more controllable for that. It's also hard to weld into a pocket due to the hot gas coming back at you. TIG is also better for that type of welding such as tubular frames of light 4130 chrome molly steel as well as other complex shaped structures. I have all four types of welding apparatus but choose the O/A every time for the thin metal where all is the same thickness.

Tony, NY · 11-23-2017, 07:17 PM

If you insist on stick welding, i have one of these in a cabinet that's hardly used. It's probably 25-30 yrs old. Uses 1/16" 6013 rods. Bought it from Eastwood. Just hook it up to your arc welder.
http://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/1...structions.pdf

tubman · 11-23-2017, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

If you insist on stick welding, i have one of these in a cabinet that's hardly used. It's probably 25-30 yrs old. Uses 1/16" 6013 rods. Bought it from Eastwood. Just hook it up to your arc welder.
http://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/1...structions.pdf

Reading between the lines, I think you're saying that it didn't work very well for you. I bought one about the same time you did and I couldn't get it to work. I even used the "special" rods that came with it.

Ggmac · 11-23-2017, 07:40 PM

I have a 110 v H F welder made in Italy . It works overtime , it's handy and has been used every week , sometimes all week for 15 yrs . If you can weld it'll do its job . 1/16 6013 or 6011 rods on CLEAN metal . Mind you I've got Miller , resistance spot welders in 220 and another in 110 plus oxy/ac and mig . This is handy any too light not to grab first .
When doing sheet , I punch holes and spot fill . Clamp tight have clean metal and go for it .

11-23-2017, 10:46 AM	#1
RalphG Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sask. Canada Posts: 2,424	Welding Cars I've inquired on other forums so thought I might try here too. If by some remote chance I do get around to welding some new sheet metal into my rusty 52 Merc, I was wondering how well the cheap little 110 volt AC (70amp) welders might work? Consensus so far seems to be I should save my money as they don't work well at all. Everybody recommends MIG but that is big money and more hassle than I want. I have an old 180 amp stick welder I've used for years on heavy metal but its way too hot for car fenders. (Yes, I tried). https://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...er/A-p8538878e __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/roosty6/videos

11-23-2017, 11:09 AM	#2
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: Welding Cars Of course years ago before the popularity and advantages of Tig.and Mig. primarily took over the field, Oxy/acet. gas welding was the only choice for sheet metal welding. With a good set of aircraft type torches it is still a good way to go. And yes, the consensus is right, save your money. __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

11-23-2017, 11:10 AM	#3
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: Welding Cars Do you have oxy/acy gas welding equipment? Get a 000 tip and practice on some sheetmetal. If you only weld like 1/2 inch and let it cool, hammer and dolly it to reverse the shrinkage that always occurs when you weld, go slow and you can do it like they used to before MIG and TIG were on the scene. That might be your cheapest alternative. I hammer welded all the way around my avatar roadster before I owned my first MIG, now with experience I usually use TIG but that is not for beginners. I would do that before using an inexpensive welder that has few adjustments. My 2 cents.

11-23-2017, 11:16 AM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: Welding Cars I still use oxy-acetylene but I have an aircraft type torch with the really small tips. If you have a set up with a larger torch, there are still some aircraft type torch sets available to add on. The great thing about O/A gas welding is that you don't need flux or shield gas since the torch supplies it's own. If you fit the pieces together well, you seldom need filler rod but RG45 is available at most welding supply shops. I butt weld and use magnets or small #40 Clecos with metal strips to hold things together for tack up. I purchased David Gardeners DVD and it really opened up things for me. This is a sample https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGElSHzm0q8

11-23-2017, 11:31 AM	#6
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Welding Cars Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Oxy/acetylene accepts a bit more rust to if patching something up. TIG absolutely hates any kind of polution in the weld area. I have no good experience of small mig welders...bought a Kempi single phase that is supposed to be a good unit but my 20 year old ESAB is way better in all aspects except weight.

11-23-2017, 11:13 AM	#4
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Welding Cars Ralph, How about staying with the vintage of the Merc.......try oxy acetylene. No doubt it's a step backwards but it is fun and so 'back in the day'. Charlie ny

11-23-2017, 11:39 AM	#7
rich b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,825	Re: Welding Cars Many years ago; one of my friends had an early Harbor Freight mig welder, not much bigger than a lunch box, hot wire, no contactor. It worked really great on sheet metal. Rust repair, floor boards, wheel tubs, chopped tops, about anything bodywise was good. I guess what I'm saying, it is not necessary to spend big money on good welder for something you may only use for one project. Just avoid flux core wire. Another way; buy a decent Hobart Handler or similar small MIG welder; use it for the project; then sell it; bet you recoup most all of your money. Warning; you may just like having it around and decide to keep it. Unless you are really good; wire welding, while not as ideal, is a lot easier and more forgiving on sheet metal than torch welding.

11-23-2017, 11:41 AM	#8
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,572	Re: Welding Cars 30 year old miller, 220 volt mig, bought for only 200 bucks will out last me

11-23-2017, 11:44 AM	#9
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,936	Re: Welding Cars Don't waste your money on a Harbor freight welder. Just wondering.....can you rent a welder?

11-23-2017, 11:54 AM	#10
Johnnydidd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overland Park, Ks Posts: 559	Re: Welding Cars You should be able to rent one, I have Lincoln SP100 125volt, I use 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix, works great, Lincoln has some inexpensive mig welders, plus you can buy parts for them

11-23-2017, 12:23 PM	#12
hop2it Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Fairport NY Posts: 35	Re: Welding Cars i would recommend the eastwood 135 mig I used a flux core welder once which was a rental it sucked,would recommend using the75% 25%gas doug

11-23-2017, 01:15 PM	#14
RalphG Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sask. Canada Posts: 2,424	Re: Welding Cars Thanks for all the feedback (even if its negative) on the small AC stick welder. I have access to use my brother's mig but I just thought it would be handy to have a small unit like this AC stick welder in my own shop for infrequent use on projects that might come up. Save having to drive 8 miles with my parts to his shop to do the welding. Plus the hassle of using up welding gas and having to get expensive rental tanks re-filled in the big city. No, I don't have oxy-acetylene equipment and have never used one. All I know is AC stick welders and heavy metal. When it comes to sheet metal it is good at burning holes. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/roosty6/videos

11-23-2017, 05:30 PM	#15
flatford8 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lyman,ME. Posts: 2,627	Re: Welding Cars I tried a rod called “ first strike” with a stick welder and it was usable but like others have said MIG or O/A was a lot easier....... Mark __________________ I'm thinkin' about crankin' My ragged ol' truck up and haulin' myself into town. Billy Joe Shaver

11-23-2017, 06:01 PM	#16
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: Welding Cars I had one of those small 110 volt stick welders that I bought on the chance that it would work on sheet metal where my 225 Miller stick welder wouldn't. It didn't work at all, but I'll always remember it fondly, because I was able to trade it to a neighbor (who really wanted it for some reason) for a used 14' Alumacraft fishing boat.

11-23-2017, 06:03 PM	#17
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: Welding Cars Just like the size of an O/A gas welding tip, the size of an arc welding rod governs the size of the weld pool. The thinner the metal, the smaller the weld pool you have to have to weld it up. Most arc rod is just too large a diameter to work for thin metal. It deposits too much filler to keep the pool small. With TIG, you can choose the size of electrode and the taper angle of that electrode to get just the right pool size for what ever you want to weld plus you can control the heat (amperage) with a foot pedal or thumb wheel. Wire feed welders can use some small filler wire but a person has to know exactly how fast to push the feed wire and how much amperage to control the weld size. With MIG you get a fast spot weld but the weld can end up pretty hard depending on the filler wire used. I end up spot welding it all together and the welds are harder to tamp down with a hammer and dolly. O/A welds are softer using RG45 and are easy to hammer down since they have a more shallow pool and don't need to have a high crown on the weld bead. Most welders start out with O/A then go on to other forms. MIG is excellent for production but takes a lot of practice to get the feed and heat set right for thin stuff. A lot of really good TIG welders start out on O/A since it is a good way to develop weld strategy. TIG adds in a lot more control than O/A gas but it takes a while to master all the things that you have at hand for that control plus you do have to be very clean with your materials, as was already mentioned. The only problem I have with O/A is that it is very challenging to weld parts that are different thicknesses together. TIG is much more controllable for that. It's also hard to weld into a pocket due to the hot gas coming back at you. TIG is also better for that type of welding such as tubular frames of light 4130 chrome molly steel as well as other complex shaped structures. I have all four types of welding apparatus but choose the O/A every time for the thin metal where all is the same thickness.

11-23-2017, 07:17 PM	#18
Tony, NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Capital of Corruption , NY Posts: 811	Re: Welding Cars If you insist on stick welding, i have one of these in a cabinet that's hardly used. It's probably 25-30 yrs old. Uses 1/16" 6013 rods. Bought it from Eastwood. Just hook it up to your arc welder. http://www.eastwood.com/images/pdf/1...structions.pdf

11-23-2017, 07:40 PM	#20
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,097	Re: Welding Cars I have a 110 v H F welder made in Italy . It works overtime , it's handy and has been used every week , sometimes all week for 15 yrs . If you can weld it'll do its job . 1/16 6013 or 6011 rods on CLEAN metal . Mind you I've got Miller , resistance spot welders in 220 and another in 110 plus oxy/ac and mig . This is handy any too light not to grab first . When doing sheet , I punch holes and spot fill . Clamp tight have clean metal and go for it .