Main Bearing Peening

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Herm - back to his post, what would cause the babbitt to crumble when peening? Would the overheated "rotten" stuff crumble?

Short answer Mr. Mike, is yes. " IF "
You leave the Babbitt to its own cooling.


Our tinning pot holds 3-1/2 to 4 gallon. These are automatically regulated, an we set the Temp. to 610 to 640. If it would get under 610, the tinning Babbitt would be sluggish to flow, pimply looking, and to cold to pour for a 100% bond, strong bond.

If over 650, your tinning is burnt, and weakened to no bond at all.

That is why those u-Tube Videos showing a Guy with a cutting torch heating a bearing is burning off spots of tinning, and the Babbitt will not be stuck, because there is no hear regulation! It is Temp., Temp., Temp.

The tinning pot Babbitt will let the copper fall to the bottom of the pot, but is nothing to remix.

Now, the pouring pot, we set to 950. At that Temp., the Babbitt does NOT separate. If you run the Temp. over a 1000, which is still workable, but it forms dross much faster, and you are wasting Babbitt.
The reason for 950 in our case is, as soon as you get a ladle full of Babbitt, the Temp. starts dropping, as it can loose 300 degrees in 4 feet, and then you would be pouring Babbitt to cold, and will not get the bond. I am talking Tinned caps, and rods here.

For those using a Pine sliver to check Babbitt Temp., should know that, this method is used on Lead Babbitt only. If used on Tin base Babbitt, it will explode in your hand long before it reaches the Temp. you need to pour.

Herm.

[Flathead]

Herm, what is your opinion of the original thrust faces on the rear main, they always seem to be worn out and or broken.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Flathead

Herm, what is your opinion of the original thrust faces on the rear main, they always seem to be worn out and or broken.

In My Opinion:

Ford Factory bearings never had problems, T's, A's, or B's, and including the Babbitted Ford V-8's. Even the ones that raced with stock motors, and overheads. Sure, if you abuse an engine, anything is possible.

My brother-in-law told me he bought a 1934 Sedan, that was in, 1946 from on a farm sale cheap, only bidder. I don't remember the miles, but a lot. Never had a wrench on it. He said the car ran very well, he drove it hard for 3 years, but always took care of his stuff. He said it was one of the fastest cars he ever owned, and was always dependable.

So what made that Babbitt last, and many of the new pours don't.

It always comes back to the peening. Some Guys do peen, but not good enough or correct. Either Babbitt to cold, Babbitt Jig not filled out. Shaft area peened, but thrust not peened. Shaft area peened to much, or hard, and the Babbitt will push the Babbitt away from the block even more, as it makes the shaft area longer then you have block.

Many Guys use Kwik-Way Align Bores. They are slow, but are as good of a Align Bore as you can buy. I used one that was New Old Stock, many years ago. and I think I had about 15 of them at one time. But, you have to set them up correctly. The two middle bar bearings have to have the right amount of tension from a spring compressed by a collar. It has been a lot of years, but I think you pushed the spring down 1/2 inch, and tightened a bolt by hand, to hold the tension. If you do not do this, you get bar sag, and a bad bore job, so this keeps everything straight.

So, if your Align Bore has sag in the middle, you are going to have a lot of whip in the middle bearing that will eat at the Babbitt, until it opens it self up more then you would like.

So, Mr. Flathead, what does this have to do with the rear thrust! Not a Dam thing, so I will get back to that. LOL

Many of new Babbitt jobs that went bad, was because of the lack of Peening, but the rest of the machine work was so bad, it would have went bad anyway. On these jobs, what was noticed, was way to much end play. I remember one as .040 thousandths, less then a 100 miles. Although I cant say which went first, but that much clearance would have been beating the heck out of it, and pumping oil out the rear main.

The worst thing you can do is set the main clearance to tight. What happens is the first .010 thousandths will be come plastic from the friction, it can't help its self, so it wiggles its self free. So the first .010 of Babbitt has lost a lot of its strength, and good wearing surface.

Thanks

Herm.

Here are some Babbitt jobs that went bad in a very short time, I saved the caps, from the Guys I have heard of. for show and tell.

All well known Babbitters.

The first picture is good old Fords.
The 3 in the 3rd row, I don't know how they keeping away with this kind of work.

Fourth row, first two pictures is what caps looks like when your heating the cap to pour with a cutting torch, burnt tin spots, Babbitt can't stick.

[40 Deluxe]

The topic of thrust surfaces and original Ford Babbitt reminds me of reading up on Model A powered Pietenpol airplanes. In his instructions for converting the A to aircraft use, Mr. Pietenpol himself said that the stock thrust surface worked fine. Think of that! All the propeller thrust is taken by the that thin ring of Babbitt, and it is a continuous load, not intermittent like a clutch is.
I have seen drawings by someone else that show a special bell housing with a radial bearing to take the thrust, as well as how to drill the crankshaft for pressure oiling to the rods. Do drilled A cranks break often? Ah well, in those days there were plenty of pastures to set her down when/if something broke!

[Flathead]

Thanks for all that good information!!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

The topic of thrust surfaces and original Ford Babbitt reminds me of reading up on Model A powered Pietenpol airplanes. In his instructions for converting the A to aircraft use, Mr. Pietenpol himself said that the stock thrust surface worked fine. Think of that! All the propeller thrust is taken by the that thin ring of Babbitt, and it is a continuous load, not intermittent like a clutch is.
I have seen drawings by someone else that show a special bell housing with a radial bearing to take the thrust, as well as how to drill the crankshaft for pressure oiling to the rods. Do drilled A cranks break often? Ah well, in those days there were plenty of pastures to set her down when/if something broke!

I for one would not know, but I would think it wouldn't be any different then what would be used in a car ?????????

Herm.

[Synchro909]

Herm, I've read and re read your posts on Babbitting. Ever thought of doing a book or DVD showing how to do the job properly? I'd buy one even if it is just for my own edification - I don't think I will ever actually do it myself.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Mr. Synchro, I don't think so. I have already told you more then I know!!!!!

But, a book would be to big, and a video, way to long.

The problem being, if I rebabbitted any kind of say, rod bearings. There are many thing that could go wrong. You would have to show all of them, to show someone else, and if what could happen didn't, you would still have to try to make it happen, to show how to fix it, and what it looks like.

One of the problems in pouring, every set of different makes of rods pour differently, they have there own set of problems. A heavy rod pours different then a light one. The Temps., are NOT, all the same by far.

Inserts in mains are alright to pour, but inserts in rods should not, because the rod inserts have to be 100% up to the backing of the inside of the rod. If not, they will NOT last. We pour solid, and that takes care of that problem.


One of my favorite saying, I have gotten is when someone asks for a price, and then they say, " Why so much, all you do is pour it in there don't you " LOL

Thanks,

Herm.