Carburetor Float valves

[TJMack]

Would I be more apt to get a valve that doesn't leak if I tried a Grose style float valve instead of the Viton tipped ones? I've gotten two of the Viton ones from Mike's A Fordable Parts and they both leak worse than the one I'm trying to replace. That one will occasionally stop leaking, but the new ones both would let the carb drip continuously.

[chap52]

Give Mike's a call. They may need to take a look at them. Most vendors appreciate the "head's up".

[Jim/GA]

I have had great performance from the viton tipped valves in the past. I suspect the gasket(s) used to install the valve in the carb are not sealing properly. Try adding a light coating of a non-hardening sealant (like Permatex #2 or Hylomar AF) to the gasket(s) and reinstall.

Re-check the float level when you do. The lubrication of the sealant will allow you to tighten the valve more, resulting in a higher float level than you had before. It does not hurt anything to set the dry float a tiny bit over 1 inch; better than a bit under 1 inch.

Feel free to contact me with any questions (email below).

.

[TinCup]

I have a Viton tipped valve in my 31 and have had for over 6 years. I do not have the leaking issue some have reported with them. The gaskets as Jim has suggested can also be the cause. Oh and by the way I do run Ethanol gas.

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by chap52

Give Mike's a call. They may need to take a look at them. Most vendors appreciate the "head's up".

x2. No particular type is problem free...I have come across rogue valves in all types... ball, conventional needle and viton . (And had Viton ones sticking closed)

[Fast31]

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Check every float valve with a manual vacuum pump. If they hold vacuum they’re good. I had 5 leaking, including 2 new ones! Then I got me a viton tipped one and that held vacuum and did not leak fuel.

[Wick]

Put your float in some gas and make sure it doesn't have a hole in it.

[Crankster]

Replacing both valve & seat correct? Not to sound patronizing but let's be clear. They are a matched set and (should) be replaced as a pair. Some may not know this.

[TJMack]

Originally Posted by Crankster

Replacing both valve & seat correct? Not to sound patronizing but let's be clear. They are a matched set and (should) be replaced as a pair. Some may not know this.

The two pieces come as an assembly. It's difficult to even take them apart if you want to lap them.

I'm pretty sure it's the valve assembly that's leaking, not the gasket. At one of the times when it wasn't leaking I took out the old valve and put in the new one. I even used the old gasket to eliminate that question. When I put in the new valve it leaked as soon as I turned the gas on. I then changed back to the old valve and it didn't leak. I therefore concluded that it must be the valve. (this was with the second new valve)

I talked with Mike's after the first valve leaked. They're great to deal with. They sent me the second one right away. I hate to keep bugging them, but I guess I'll have to.

From what Fast31 and others have said, it sounds like this is a common problem. If you're lucky enough to get a good valve you never see it.

Right now the old one is holding quite well. I left the tank valve on for about 6 hours today with no leak. But I know it won't last.

The car runs great, and I always shut the tank valve off anyway, but it's just not right.

[Jim/GA]

This may or may not have been the problem with your float valves...

Any little speck if rust, dirt, etc., that flows down with the gas and gets trapped between the needle and the seat will cause the valve to leak (not shut off). Debris can actually get imbedded in the viton tip, making it not seal and also not flush out with gas flowing through the valve.

So it is a good idea to open the gas valve and flow some gas out of the fuel line (catch it in a clear glass so that you can see what's in the gas). Then connect the fuel line to the carburetor and go.

I hope this helps.

.

[kimlinh]

I had nothing but trouble with the new viton tipped( and old style) float valves. The two ball grose style valve did the trick. What ever type you use make sure it is working properly. The danger of fire should not be played with, even with the tank shut off valve. I don't know why the needle and seat type valves did not work as good as the grose jet type but they didn't.

[Benson]

New valves may have brass shavings inside from machining.

1. Before installing, blow 30 pounds pressure air backwards through the OPEN valve for 15 seconds or so.

I say 30 pounds because that is the pressure of an "OSHA safety" regulated nozzle.

2. I suspect that if 100 +pounds were applied to Viton valves that the plastic retaining ring might be blown out of the valve.

3. Also installing a "finger" filter in (the gas tank shutoff valve) keeps dirt and rust out of the float valve. Which is a common cause of float leaks

4. The finger filter keeps Dirt and rust from getting inside shutoff valve which makes it hard to turn and wears it out.

[Bikerider58]

I have the same issue with a new Viton valve. Took it apart to clean and noticed two things

1. Viton tip is hard, like a coating on the metal or plastic. I expected more of a rubber like material. Softer stuff works great in bike carbs.
2. The body does did not have a face for the needle seat. It is sharp edge.

I got my Viton from Bratton’s and told them of the issues.

This weekend I may try using an original type needle to tap in a seat.

Oh, The Oring type worked fine.

[w.michael]

I have had three viton tipped float valves. The first one leaked. The second stuck in the closed position every time I stopped at a stop light. The third one is still in my car. It has not leaked yet, but it has stuck in the closed position one time. If it begins to stick more frequently, I'll have to change it out again. I'm not sure if any other valve is any better, but the viton tipped valve certainly isn't very reliable.

W. Michael

[duke36]

We've been adding ethanol stabilizer to help with the effects of this gas on seals, etc.
which perhaps is softening the viton tips.

[TJMack]

Yesterday I talked with Mike at Mike's A Fordable Parts about he problem I've been having with the Viton float valves. Nice Chap.


He said that he hasn't heard of problems with these, but I should contact the fellow (named Charlie in Kentucky) that does most of his carb rebuilds and then call him back. Charlie said he has also been having a lot of trouble with these valves and was planning on calling Mike himself.


When I called Mike back he was amazed that Charlie hadn't spoken up before since he had about 15 bad ones on hand. Mike is going to look into the problem and get back to me when he has it resolved.

[stouchton]

I had 2 vitons from Brattons refuse to seal.

Installed a grose style and all has been well - going on a year now.

I have 7 other carb engines all with viton and no issues at all. Must be a quality issue with the ones for the A's.

[Chris H]

When installing any new float needle and seat, (or old, for that matter), I check by installing the float, rolling the carb over so the float is resting on the needle. Hook up a Mity Vac hand pump in, pressure mode, (not vacuum) and pump up with air. The needle should hold a steady pressure of about 7 PSI or more. Note: a vacuum will pull the seat tighter and cover up a faulty seat. I have been using this method on small engines for years and never had a leaker yet. The hard part may be making an adapter for the carb inlet.

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by Fast31

Check every float valve with a manual vacuum pump. If they hold vacuum they’re good. I had 5 leaking, including 2 new ones! Then I got me a viton tipped one and that held vacuum and did not leak fuel.

I check all of them with a hand held vacuum pump. I buy them a dozen at A time or more and honestly if 7 are ok that’s about the average, and that’s with the Viton tips units. I did a carb yesterday that had A unique shape but it was viton and it was awesome. Jim, I must not have as good a luck as you. I know it’s nit the gaskets because the valves them selves not installed won’t hold vacuum. Just my experience and I’m a pretty tentative rebuilder/restorer .

Larry shepard

[Jim/GA]

While i have had good luck with the Viton tipped needle valves in the past, they might be coming from a different supplier now.

I have also used the Grose ball-style valves on my Model B carb with great results. So switch to them if the Viton needles don't work for you.

[TJMack]

Mike from Mike's A Fordable parts called me today. He said he has been in contact with other parts retailers and they are seeing the same problems with the Viton float valves. He also said they are collectively contacting the manufacturers to get the problem resolved. He said he would keep me informed. Maybe we can get an end to this hassle that so many of us have fought with.

[JD 1931]

I used new original type that I buy from Bratton when I rebuild my carbs. I don't trust any kind of rubber parts in carbs with corn crap gas...

[Tom Endy]

A number of years ago I bought several Viton tip float valves from Bratton. They leaked pretty bad so I took them apart and found them loaded with brass machine chips. I was able to clean them out and they worked fine. I called Walt Bratton and told him what I found. It should be understood that Walt, as well as other suppliers, are at the mercy of their supplier. Walt tried to do something about it by calling his supplier. The next batch I got were better, but not good.


Since then I always take them apart for inspection. Most often I find a few chips. The last batch I recently bought were very clean.


Quite often a leaking float valve is not the fault of the valve, the float is the culprit. Over the years people have been bending and tweaking and generally molesting the float trying to adjust the float level. This causes them to not come up straight against the valve. This pushes the valve off center and they leak. You never should attempt to alter the float in order to set the float level, do it with additional gaskets under the valve.


I have also noticed that the Viton tip valves I am getting from Bratton's lately have a slightly shorter needle. In order to make them work properly I have to put two black washers under the valve, where with a new valve and a new float one gasket used to do the job of setting the float level properly.


The gross ball valves don't work well with the gas here in California. They tend to stick closed. I had it happen to me while I was driving down the road (the engine quits and you coast to the side of the road). I have heard the same story from fellow club members.


Tom Endy

[smurph]

HELP!
I’ve tried everything (?) and can’t stop carburetor leak. Carb has been functioning properly for 5 years. Then, all of a sudden, at a stop, after shutting off the main gas valve, gas drips out from the carb to the pavement below.
I have tried four different float valves, including a new modern style from Brattons ( part # 14310). Still leaking. Float level properly set at 1”. Carb clean, jets clear, new main gasket. Why is gas flow not shutting off?

Thanks for your help
Smurph

[24ruxstel1339]

Did you shake the float and make sure no gas has leaked inside ?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

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Originally Posted by 24ruxstel1339

Did you shake the float and make sure no gas has leaked inside ?

If you have shut off the gas shutoff valve and are getting leakage gas out the carb, you may additionally have a leaking Gas Shutoff Valve. Disconnect the gas line at the carb, put a catch container under it. With the main Gas Shutoff Valve turned off, once the gas line is drained, no further gas should drip out the end of the gas line. Let it sit this way for a while, and recheck.
1st I would confirm the Shutoff is functioning properly/repair, and then figure out why the float does not seem to be seating properly.

[Bob C]

This is a long shot but see Marco's site.
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/carb-1.htm


Bob

[Dan Partain]

Here's what worked for me a few weeks ago. I experienced the same sudden leaking that you did (smurph). My carb had been running an original type float valve for many years.

I installed a 4 year old new viton tip float valve and it leaked worse than the original style valve I had just removed.

I removed the new viton tip valve and took it apart as Tom Endy had recommended (thanks Tom). It was easy, there is only a small plastic washer that holds the needle in the valve. It's easily removed and replaced if you are careful.

I didn't find any metal shavings in mine. I did find that the viton tip had a little bit of an oxidation or something on the surface of it. I took the rubber tip and spun it back and forth in a rag to see if I could refresh the rubber and remove the coating, and that did the trick. I also pushed the rubber around with my finger to make sure it was still flexible, and it was fine.

After I reassembled everything and mounted the carb I had no more leaks from that viton tip valve. I really prefer the old original style valves, but we'll see how this viton tip valve holds up.

[smurph]

Thanks for your replies. Still a mystery.
Main gas shut off valve working properly.
Put the float in container of gasoline— it floats, no sign of leaks.
Bob, thanks for the referral to Marco. I did that also. I had a small dimple— much less pronounced than in Marco’s picture, but I sanded it even.
Maybe a faulty float valve? But that doesn’t explain why the original one suddenly went bad!
Other than fuel overflowing the main and cap jets, is there any other way for fuel to find its way out the weep hole in the under body?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Am not sre ther are other ways.


Did you just set the float in the gas, or did you keep it completely submerged?


The most common causes are in this string. If all the preceding are eliminated we have a mystery. Only suggestion is to swap in a known good seat valve, perhaps from another A, of if you have spare carb.



Thinking out of the box - plug the seat with a dab of flexible sealant, install it, see if the leak stops? Do not know if this is a valid test, see what others say.

[sjessen]

Sounds like most have had issues with leaks. I have worked on my 30' many times. I found a cure that works for me. I rev the motor up a little before turning the ignition off - no leaks. Not a real fix but works for me. Just tired of taking that carb apart and buying needles & seats. Steve

[Dave in MD]

Recently I had a problem with the viton tip valve sticking in the closed (float up) position.
Jeff at Brattons advised me to soak the entire valve in gas for two days. After removing it form the gas, the valve stem seems to move up and down without sticking in the closed position.
Dave

[JD 1931]

I prefer the original type float valve that was used in the Zenith when new , you can still get them new. I seat them before install and blow air to clean any particles out.

[jhowes]

How come the originals worked for 60 to 80 years and now we are experiencing problems? Can someone give a step by step procedure for preparing and installing the original type valve? Some have said to lap in the needle to the seat but how do you hold on to such small a small piece?. Jack

[jm29henry]

i really like the Grose ball type i have had good luck

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good afternoon...Jim has a good point as just a spec of rust, or other junk, that finds it's way into your carburetor can cause the float valve not to close all the way. Years ago and old Mechanic told me to put a magnet the size of a quarter in the little glass bowl of the fuel filer right up on the fire wall. Anything metal coming out of the tank will stick to the magnet. When the magnet looks dirty and has attracted a bunch of rust, then take it out of the bowl and clean it off...This has worked for me for years. I have also seen folks put a second old school glass bowl fuel filter down by the carburetor and put a magnet in it as well...that way the gas going into the carburetor is pretty much clean and will not foul the float valve. Ernie in Arizona