Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2023, 03:31 PM   #1
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

I recently ordered a new set of points (A-12199) from Snyder's. After installation, it was obvious that the arm was too long and did not center on the point block screw contact (see photo). Snyder's said this was a known problem but the vendor refuses to correct it. To correct this, you must order a new, modified point block (A-12160-X)

Also had a problem with a new Cam Screw and Washer (A-12211/13). The inside diameter of my cam is .554" and the diameter of the washer was .564". I had to use a Dremel to grind it down. The lock washer is made of thick, heavy steel and takes quite a bit of torque to compress. This makes it more difficult to adjust the timing. If you remove the washer or use a thinner one, you can't use the screw because it's not threaded completely to the head like the old, original screw (see photo). Does anyone know a supplier that has completely threaded screws?

Thanks!

John D.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Points.jpg (36.8 KB, 119 views)
File Type: jpg Points Block.jpg (26.9 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg Distributor Cam Screw.jpg (44.2 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg Cam screw washer.jpg (41.1 KB, 66 views)
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 05:50 AM   #2
ndnchf
Senior Member
 
ndnchf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 401
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Could you run a die down the screw to bring the threads closer to the head?
ndnchf is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-28-2023, 08:24 AM   #3
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,040
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
Could you run a die down the screw to bring the threads closer to the head?

The cam screw is a weird size and pitch that he probably doesnít have a die for.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 08:39 AM   #4
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 5,326
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

If you can not find the proper screw, I'm wondering if you could counterbore the shaft a little to get the screw to tighten with the thinner lock washer.
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 10:35 AM   #5
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,640
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

This is why swap meets are an important part of the hobby. I always look for spares to cannibalize for proper parts.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 10:59 AM   #6
GPierce
Senior Member
 
GPierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Germantown,TN
Posts: 458
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Does anyone sell original style points with the correct dimension center to center?
GPierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 11:12 AM   #7
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,258
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

This got me to thinking, and I am just wondering out loud, does the longer arm change the geometry and correlation to the distributor cam? Seems to me with the longer arm the points would open wider at a given point on the cam. Then the points would be adjusted to the proper gap, the rubbing block would hit in a different spot and the points would open sooner? Would this change the dwell of the cam? Like I said, just wondering out loud.
__________________
Ruth
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 11:24 AM   #8
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 15,441
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

I'm still using points that were restoration parts back in the 70s & 80s when they were still made to specs. Somewhere along the way, (likely in the 90s) this type of stuff began being farmed out to offshore companies that were willing to make them for little or nothing but that has a trickle down effect over time. The domestic companies quit manufacturing the parts and the accuracy of design sometimes suffers due to that.

It's evidently very difficult to find a company anywhere that will make low production parts for the restoration market. I guess it was easier to either modify the old stationary point block or manufacture a new one to work with the out of spec parts. They needed to elongate the existing screw holes or make a new one with different specs. This shows the cause and effect of the current state of the restoration parts market.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 12:17 PM   #9
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

I believe the pan head, slotted machine screw is a 5/16-28 x 1/4". It's been my experience that machine screws are completely threaded. Going to ACE hardware later and see if I can find one. Thanks everyone for your replies.
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 12:53 PM   #10
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,040
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndduvall View Post
I believe the pan head, slotted machine screw is a 5/16-28 x 1/4".
It is not. The size is .325-30tpi, length 25/64". If you get a 5/16-28x1/4" screw, it will not thread into the cam.

Also technically it's a fillister head bolt and the official spec driver is a #3 coin-slot driver, not flathead.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 02:04 PM   #11
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
It is not. The size is .325-30tpi, length 25/64". If you get a 5/16-28x1/4" screw, it will not thread into the cam.

Also technically it's a fillister head bolt and the official spec driver is a #3 coin-slot driver, not flathead.
Thanks for saving me a trip to ACE. Snyder's screw measured at .323" and I wrongly assumed that is was close enough to .310 (5/16th) although .015" difference is a lot. My thread gauge didn't have 30 TPI and it seem liked 28 TPI was close. Guess it was just wishful thinking that it was a 5/16-28. Any idea why Ford would use such an oddball size other than being proprietary?
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 02:42 PM   #12
ndnchf
Senior Member
 
ndnchf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 401
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

What if you used a thinner 5/16" lock washer with a reduced diameter flat washer above it to make up for the unthreaded portion?
ndnchf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 03:33 PM   #13
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndnchf View Post
What if you used a thinner 5/16" lock washer with a reduced diameter flat washer above it to make up for the unthreaded portion?
I thought about that. Maybe use a little JB Weld between the flat washer and head and use a thinner lock washer?

Currently, I'm using the old screw by itself. It seems to secure the cam okay. Does anyone else use just the screw? I'm going to request that Snyder's have their vendor completely thread the screw.

Thanks,

John D.
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 07:35 PM   #14
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 15,441
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

The last one I purchased was the screw that is drilled for an oiler hole that comes as a kit with the drilled distributor shaft. That set up fit OK. It comes with a lock washer for the screw.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6342&cat=41666
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 07:41 PM   #15
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
The last one I purchased was the screw that is drilled for an oiler hole that comes as a kit with the drilled distributor shaft. That set up fit OK. It comes with a lock washer for the screw.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6342&cat=41666
Was it threaded to the head with no gap? The price seems reasonable.

Thanks!!

John D.
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 11:10 PM   #16
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 2,310
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Aren’t the echlin points from Napa correct?
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2023, 11:39 PM   #17
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac View Post
Arenít the echlin points from Napa correct?
Just ordered a set and will let everyone know if they are correct.

Thanks for the info!

John D.
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2023, 01:11 PM   #18
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 15,441
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndduvall View Post
Was it threaded to the head with no gap? The price seems reasonable.

Thanks!!

John D.
I'll have to take it out and look. It's in the car right now and functioning well. The lockwasher should be thick enough to keep the thread from bottoming out.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2023, 03:36 PM   #19
bobbader
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Huntington, NY
Posts: 172
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Seems to me the first thing to do would be to call Snyders about the cam screw. They are more than willing to hear if a problem exists, especially with such a simple part that every single Model A needs. Original post suggests that you did call them about the points misalignment. Why not question them about the cam screw as well? We can be a receptive audience and purveyors of counsel, but the supplier is the ultimate source of being able to advise about an item they sold you.
bobbader is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2023, 11:45 PM   #20
johndduvall
Member
 
johndduvall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Sun City and Show Low, Arizona
Posts: 42
Default Re: Original-Style Points and Cam Screw Sold by Snyder's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbader View Post
Seems to me the first thing to do would be to call Snyders about the cam screw. They are more than willing to hear if a problem exists, especially with such a simple part that every single Model A needs. Original post suggests that you did call them about the points misalignment. Why not question them about the cam screw as well? We can be a receptive audience and purveyors of counsel, but the supplier is the ultimate source of being able to advise about an item they sold you.
I did mention the screw to Kevin. He said it would be checked along with adding the disclaimer to the points description.

John D.
johndduvall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44 PM.