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Old 07-12-2018, 07:10 AM   #61
WHN
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Or mine says; : to bring back to or put back into a former or original state.

As a professional restorer, I do exactly what my customer asks me to do. I don't see where anyone's ego is involved in this conversation however I do believe people should be honest in their descriptions. Society has taken the stance where making misleading statements is acceptable. Just as in Bob's case, other that have misused the term 'restoration' has cheapened the hobby as a whole. I am pretty sure we all know that Bob is truthful when he tells us he has restored his car and has $60k in it, yet because others have stated theirs is restored, it has mislead the public into believing a restored Model-A can be done for less money.
A persons Ego is a terrible thing for other people to have to deal with!

Buyer be ware!

If you were to spend $30,000.00, $60,000.00, or more on restoring a Model A, it still might not give you a “Restored” car given some people’s strict definition. These restored cars are still worth to most buyers only slightly more than what someone might call a good driver.

My idea or your idea of a restored car might not be the same. However, I believe we agree that nothing should be misrepresented.

All that I am trying to say is that for most of the world a restoration of anything is in the view of the restorer.

It is up to the buyer to decide if the level of restoration equals the price being asked.

Everything in life that is restored is not point judged. Buyers are the final decision makers. Enjoy.

Last edited by WHN; 07-12-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:29 AM   #62
Keith True
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

What I hear a lot of is,for $XX,XXX you shoulda got this,or shoulda got that.There are cars you can put $10,000 in and have a nice looking car.There are cars you can put $10,000 in and just get started.i only know of a couple of shops around here that will take any old car work now,and they are time and materials only.I used to work on a 29 pickup for an older fellow that had had the truck painted in a shop next to his house.The shop owner knew him and let him watch through an office window.The worker didn't mind him watching,and the truck owner said he got value for every minute of work he paid for.His friends all would say he should have gotten a lot more for what he paid,but the fact was he got what he paid for.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:30 PM   #63
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

Antique vehicle preservation/restoration can include many skills such as wood working, electrical, upholstery, mechanical (engine/chassis), body work, painting, etc.; just to name a few. In addition, tools, equipment, and shop space is required.

My guess is that most of us don't have all these skills and naturally rely on others with the requisite skill level.

While the out of pocket cash costs for preservation/restoration are most important, your efforts/work in the project brings non-cash value and benefits.

For example, if you completely rebuild the Model A Brake System, you will learn an awful lot about the braking system and have a much better appreciation for your car's brakes. Having someone else rebuild them will not impart that value/knowledge.

The true cost of restoration/preservation should factor in the value/knowledge you gained through the process.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:52 AM   #64
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

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They didn't buy it.I know some say they would throw them out,insult them,but some day they just may come back with money for something else.There was a man here that exports to Hungary,he offered $12000.Those two old boys thought he was just foolish.With A's and British motorcycles I've found I have to drive a stake in the ground and say,that's it.That's the price.Look it over good,do and say whatever you want,but that is the price.The sight of cash doesn't excite me.Those guys thought I was going to sell cheap because they had cash and they felt I should sell to them cheap.
Keith those 'first' two guys that came to look at your Coupe wouldn't have been those annoying pair from American Pickers by chance?

Those kind of shows have done a tremendous amount of damage to the antique car and collectibles hobby as far as I'm concerned. Today everybody is a bloody 'flipper' going to make big money off of you being stupid. That really grinds my gears, I have no patience with these types. This is the price, if you don't like it there's the door.

Some guy came thru here last summer with a pickup and an empty trailer and Missouri tags, looking to 'buy' old cars. Somebody at the restaurant uptown sent him my way. He found me in the garage, told me he wanted to buy an old car, and did I have anything for sale? I told him politely 'no'. Then, this goof ball starts tearing into our '36 Ford telling me all that is wrong with it, how it wasn't worth much, how I could make some quick money by selling it to him,,, and all that nonsense. If I had had the Garand handy he would have gotten an .06 up his butt hole. The guy was a real jerk.

He then said 'I'm heading over to a guy named (name ommitted he's a friend of mine) to buy his '59 Vette." Yeah, good luck with that, that has never been tried before! Plus my friend is a hardened VietNam vet he was in the battle of the I Drang Valley he'll clean your clock he's half nuts to start with, you just don't fool with him

The Missouri's guy's funeral was held the next week!!
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:59 PM   #65
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

Been watching this for a few weeks, and there are some interesting points made. The cost of a restoration is truly an open ended question, everyone is different. Quality work by a skilled craftsman is expensive, as is the materials and parts. As a life long restorer I couldn't give you a number of how many times someone asked me how much to do the job. My answer always has been time and materials and what level do you want to achieve. Years ago I gave up doing customer work and started buying and restoring, then selling. Less hassle no interface with an anxious customer who wants it done yesterday and no issues about getting paid while the restoration is taking place and they all went out the door to new, happy owners. One thing that has not been mentioned is that if you are planning on having a restoration done seek out someone that is knowledgeable working on that particular model, the local guy down the street may not have a clue on how something is suppose to be, using someone not qualified could be a recipe for financial diaster, not to mention the frustration. If you stick with the better shops around the country you might be better off, but do your homework before you commit to spending your grand kids inheritance. Patience is the key, look around, research where you want to go with this, it will be expensive and you want to make sure that the end result will stand up to the test, is it done correctly. The man that taught me many automotive things while I was growing up in Huntington Sta. NY in the 50s-60s, Bob Kannard had a saying that he had on a banner in the waiting room, "Confucius says, ask for cheap job, get same"



I'll finish with a suggestion that worked for me in finding my Tudor, as a restorer I admire and can appreciate quality work, plus you get to enjoy it as soon as you buy it.. Look at the vehicles that pass muster at the national meets, such as fine point judging or touring class the last couple of years, investigate who did the work, you might find one of those vehicles for sale and have the opportunity to buy it. Not the only way to find one, but not to bad a start

Last edited by holdover; 07-16-2018 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:55 PM   #66
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

As I said before all the posts above are valid. There is not even one definition of what it means to restore a car. Is it wrong to say something like " I want to restore the engine to running condition"? Does it have to be as it left the factory?

How about these;

I'm going to restore my Dads A to running condition.
I'm going to restore my A to driving condition.
I'm going to restore my A to AACA standards.
I'm going to restore my A to as it was supposed to leave the factory floor.

In my opinion, these are all correct use of the word restore and with each come different costs.

Even the last one, Mark Maron took 8 years to restore his car to "fine point". Most of the work was done by him. Eight years is a good piece of time but since I'm sure he did not charge himself labor it was cost effective.

You can have two high scoring cars with two greatly different costs. You provide the labor and don't make a profit on the parts and one that was dropped off and pick up a year or two later where the professional charged for labor and a profit on parts.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:09 PM   #67
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

I was looking through the papers from when I restored my car --- 1200$For everything, 320$ for the engine work (10$ a mile, it only lasted 3200 miles)
I learned that I could screw it up 3 times for what it would cost to pay someone else to screw it up,
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:45 PM   #68
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Default Re: Cos of A Restoration

Some great thoughts in this thread. I'm pleased I'm not the only person that has paid more than twice the market value for restoration / repair jobs.
I can look back at my life's achievements and say I have spared two of my three A's from scrap for future generations to enjoy.
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