Tod winfield/ weiand head

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by Dodge

The new aluminum Winfield is not a crows foot. Some have ground the crows feet into
the head though and had a improvement. It must be an air flow thing.

Don't know where that story started from but I have had 2 of the new Al. Winfield heads, both ordered as and both had the Crowsfoot chamber and came that way as cast.

[Purdy Swoft]

This may not pertain to the variation in some of the aluminum Winfield repro combustion chambers but... It seems that back in the mid ninties when Specialty Ford parts in Rosemead CA offered the heads, they were available in both 6 and 7 to 1 ratios. Couldn't this be the reason for the variation is combustion chamber shape ? It seems that grinding away material from an already formed chamber would lower the ratio.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

This may not pertain to the variation in some of the aluminum Winfield repro combustion chambers but... It seems that back in the mid ninties when Specialty Ford parts in Rosemead CA offered the heads, they were available in both 6 and 7 to 1 ratios. Couldn't this be the reason for the variation is combustion chamber shape ? It seems that grinding away material from an already formed chamber would lower the ratio.

That would be a reasonable conclusion. Crow's foot = 6:1 the other = 7:1? For that to happen I think the 6:1 would need to be about 15 percent more volume than the 7:1. Someone can check my off-the-top-of-my-head math and let me know if that is true. When I cut both chambers I will CC them both.

Tod

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by Tod

That would be a reasonable conclusion. Crow's foot = 6:1 the other = 7:1? For that to happen I think the 6:1 would need to be about 15 percent more volume than the 7:1. Someone can check my off-the-top-of-my-head math and let me know if that is true. When I cut both chambers I will CC them both.

Tod

I posted that I had owned 2 of the Rosemead/ Antique Auto Parts Al. heads and both were as cast Crowsfoot heads. The reasonI owned 2 because the first one was recalled before I could use it. I believe they advertised a 6 to 1 a 7 to 1 and a Crowsfoot. I called and spoke to Gene Scott weekly regarding when the Crowsfoot would be available. Which, I believe was to be 7.5 to 1 Memory fails me there. Possibly only a 7 to 1. They are very good heads and make a lot of power. I will repost our results at the 2010 Antique Nationals with one of these heads It is a model A block.

[Tod]

Today I ran the first roughing pass on the top of the head pattern. Need to get this cut asap. More pattern work requests came in today. Chop, chop, giddy up!

My foundry was also asking about making more blocks. I'm kinda stuck in the shop right now so getting to the foundry is difficult. So when we do make the next ones I'll just go ahead and make 4 castings at once. Maybe in a couple or 3 weeks, depending on how busy the core shop is.


Tod

[bettlesr]

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I bought an aluminum Winfield crows foot head a few years back from Red's Headers and was told it was a 7:1 head. The "Non" crows foot head was also sent as a 7:1 head. There was a problem with the hole for the distributor being oversize and the location of the lock bolt hole being too high on the head and holding the distributor off the surface. The manufaturer suggested to put shim stock around the distributor and also put a thin "shim stock" washer under the distributor so the screw would fit into the groove of the distributor casting. As the pistons were quite above the top of the block, I use a stock head gasket, a solid copper spacer and the another stock head gasket. This also require me to make a slightly longer drive shaft for the distributor. For the record, I am using the crows foot head.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

... As the pistons were quite above the top of the block, I use a stock head gasket, a solid copper spacer and the another stock head gasket. ...

Kinda defeats the purpose of having a 7:1 head, doesn't it?

[bettlesr]

CarlG
Not really as the pistons take up most of the extra space. The piston to head clearance is back to what it should be.

[Purdy Swoft]

The pistons originally protruded just a bit over .032 thirty two thousants. I think that the head gasket compresses to about .060 when torqued down to the block . Two gaskets would be a hundred and twenty thousants compressed, then add the thickness of the shim gasket. Thats a lot of gasket. You only need thirty to thirty five thousants clearsnce between piston and head when the head is torqued down on the gasket . I'm surprised that you didn't need longer studs.

[bettlesr]

Purdy:
I am using aftermarket racing studs that are slightly longer than the originals. I believe they are the length of the one that is supposed to have the ignition wire clamp on it. The copper gasket is .031 thick. I don't remember exactly but I think the pistons were up about .117 above the block. They were all right with the stock head but not with the 7:1 head. These heads are not under cut like a stock head.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

I bought an aluminum Winfield crows foot head a few years back from Red's Headers and was told it was a 7:1 head. The "Non" crows foot head was also sent as a 7:1 head. There was a problem with the hole for the distributor being oversize and the location of the lock bolt hole being too high on the head and holding the distributor off the surface. The manufaturer suggested to put shim stock around the distributor and also put a thin "shim stock" washer under the distributor so the screw would fit into the groove of the distributor casting. As the pistons were quite above the top of the block, I use a stock head gasket, a solid copper spacer and the another stock head gasket. This also require me to make a slightly longer drive shaft for the distributor. For the record, I am using the crows foot head.

I have these same two heads. The crow's foot one was labelled as a 7:1 and it was 120cc.The other one was labelled 8.5:1 and checked 86 cc. Hope this helps.

[bettlesr]

Rex A Lot
Thanks
Dick

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

I have these same two heads. The crow's foot one was labelled as a 7:1 and it was 120cc.The other one was labelled 8.5:1 and checked 86 cc. Hope this helps.

If you call Antique Auto in Rosemead and give them the numbers stamped into the head they can tell you what the ratio was. I called and my head is/was 7 to 1 and it is a "Crowsfoot"

[Tod]

The rough cutting of the top is complete. It would have been done yesterday but the power company blew out the power for a few blocks around me in the afternoon. So, I got a couple of hours off on a fairly nice afternoon. Be starting on the finish pass soon.

Tod

[bettlesr]

Just plain bill:
I called Antique Auto and gave them my S/N. They said it is a 7:1 crows foot head and around 120cc.
Dick

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by bettlesr

I bought an aluminum Winfield crows foot head a few years back from Red's Headers and was told it was a 7:1 head. The "Non" crows foot head was also sent as a 7:1 head. There was a problem with the hole for the distributor being oversize and the location of the lock bolt hole being too high on the head and holding the distributor off the surface. The manufaturer suggested to put shim stock around the distributor and also put a thin "shim stock" washer under the distributor so the screw would fit into the groove of the distributor casting. As the pistons were quite above the top of the block, I use a stock head gasket, a solid copper spacer and the another stock head gasket. This also require me to make a slightly longer drive shaft for the distributor. For the record, I am using the crows foot head.

Hey bettlesr,
I've re-read your input here and concerning problem with hole in head and dist. size difference. BTW, I have the head on right of you pics (8.5:1 cr).
So today, I went and checked a recently got Bubba alum dist, with the Winfield head hole ...for fitment. What thousand clearance is acceptable between these two, if you know ?
Anyway, my new dist fits the Winfield head hole and has (guess) .005 clearance....good/bad/ugly ,eh
Here's my main concern. The dist HAS A RADIUS where it meets the Winfield head and this radii had the dist sitting up off of the face of the Winfield maybe .050 (will measure if anyone thinks that this is wrong/problem). WHY this radius at all, I have no idea..what am I missing here ? Should the Winfield have a relief cut in same area to match dist or should the dist radii be cut off ?

Now, I checked the original old cast iron heads and it is FLAT in this area, and no radius at bottom of my old dists. Haven't contacted Bubba to discuss yet. Want to see what you say first.

[Tod]

Finish pass is cutting on the top today.

Tod

[Tod]

The top of the pattern is all cut and I test fit it in the mold box setup. "A"-OK! I can paint it and make a mold to fit the core plug into and then use as the first sample for the casting.

Tod

[waxhead]

Good news, fast progress as always

[Tod]

Originally Posted by waxhead

Good news, fast progress as always

Nothing ever moves quick enough for me. The time from idea to production is like eternity to an impatient man. In the last week, while finishing the top, I got my foundry and core quotes and have my final cost worked out for iron or aluminum. I also drew up the "B" pump end and a finned style. I need to go over the poll again and see what all I will have to do.

First will be the Winfield style with the square cornered chamber, then the crow's foot.

Tod