A great big "Thank You!" to two members...

[Marshall V. Daut]

... of this early V-8 message board!!! Frank Scheidt and Jay Temple have been advising and guiding me through a brake rebuild procedure on my 85 year-old friend's 1937 Fordor Sedan. This was my first foray into the early V-8 world from my comfort zone in Model A's and T's, so everything was new to me. Frank and Jay supplied not only advice, but also scans of brake system components not to be found in the Ford Service Manual or V-8 Chassis Manual. Frank further provided his "ABC's of 1937 Brake Adjustment" DVD, which I highly recommend to 1937-38 owners.
The "professional" local specialty car repair shop that had "fixed" his brakes a few months ago completely scr*wed up the job to the point that the car would barely stop. Using Frank's and Jay's scans and input, I was able to discover the main problem (incorrect return springs, number, type, tensile strength and their placement. Gee, is that ALL???) and make the brakes work as designed. I couldn't have done it without their help. Upon driving the car yesterday after the brake job was completed, my friend said it hadn't stopped that well since he bought the car in the 1950's! I guess between Frank, Jay and Humble Self, we must have done SOMETHING right! So, I'd like to publically thank these two guys for helping a stranger repair my friend's brakes. It's that kind of support and willingness to go the extra mile that make websites like this such a valuable resource for us all.
Marshall V. Daut
Davenport, Iowa
P.S. I am posting a couple "After" photos of the brakes, as well as views of the car with new pin striping and painted wheels. I know that red isn't exactly authentic, but the color sure does make that stodgy old Fordor come to life!

[mfagan]

You're a good friend!

[Marshall V. Daut]

Here's what we started out with. How many things can you find wrong in these pictures? Can you say "criminally stupid"? I thought you could. Photo #4 is the telling one. Check out the HEAVY-DUTY modern spring and extra hole drilled in the top brake shoe to accommodate it. Jeez...
Marshall

[FlatheadTed]

Its good to see you have now good brakes ,I can see by these pictures that there are qute a few things they haven't addressed. I don't think you can blame just the springs entirely ,The lower pictures show how 35/36 brakes are normally set up with one single spring ,but both top and bottom ,the lower two springs are quite ok providing they are of equal strength .,35 /36 with floaters on work very well set up this way .The single spring 91A-2035 was a replacement and 38 to 48 this spring is much stronger than org specs, used a lot before the spring 2035 was made for 35-36 .If springs get mixed up Because of the colour coding being worn of it can create a problem . I can see by the condition of the backing plates and linings that little work has been done .It looks like the top adjuster has not been removed also as in your first photo ,going by that its unlikely the the cross shaft angles and cables would have been attended to .or fitting the correct linings as in your first picture .Ted

[compyello]

That is nice that you had some help, you in turn helped me because now I know about this dvd. Do the original brakes stop ok? I am sure it has a lot to do with proper assembly and adjustment. Really, is it feasable to rebuild the mechanical or look into hydraulic?

[TonyM]

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MARSHALL V. DAUT QUOTE: "Frank further provided his "ABC's of 1937 Brake Adjustment" DVD, which I highly recommend to 1937-38 owners."


Sounds great. How can I order Frank Scheidt's DVD ABC's of 1937 Ford Brake Adjustment? I am very interested. Thanks.

[Marshall V. Daut]

One more question -
As can be seen in the photos, there is a drooping door handle situation. Is there a cure for "droopey" door handles? There are at least two such handles on my friend's Fordor that droop and flop around at the slightest touch. They seem to be spring-loaded, or were at one time. Is there a reasonable repair (farmer repairs acceptable) short of replacing the entire door lock mechanism? To replace the handle itself would be preferable. Once again, I am showing my ignorance here in the early V-8 world. Over in the Model A side of life (which is not always sunny), a new door handle would correct this problem. My apologies for cross-breeding here. Are new door handles for a 1937 Fordor even available? If yes, from whom, OTHER THAN from MAC's?
Marshall

[compyello]

Originally Posted by TonyM

MARSHALL V. DAUT QUOTE: "Frank further provided his "ABC's of 1937 Brake Adjustment" DVD, which I highly recommend to 1937-38 owners."


Sounds great. How can I order Frank Scheidt's DVD ABC's of 1937 Ford Brake Adjustment? I am very interested. Thanks.

Tony http://www.fsaudio.biz/forddvds.html

[Marshall V. Daut]

Hi, "TonyM" and other 1937-38 Ford owners -
Frank Scheidt may jump in here if he wishes, but to save him from tooting his own horn about the quality video training product he offers, here is the link for his DVD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABC-of-Brake...-/111813425007. Be forewarned that the video was produced by the FoMoCo training department and is therefore hardly objective in its approach. Lots of good information can be gleaned from the video, but it is mostly a salesman's tool used to explain the new 1937 brake system to a potential customer. That is NOT to say it has no merit, however! It did show me how the 1937 brake system was updated from previous Ford braking systems and how the various components operate. This was highly useful to my understanding of what was wrong with my friend's brakes. But I would not consider it a tutorial step-by-step guide for brake repair, as we understand tutorial "How to" videos today. It was invaluable to me as a novice to understand how the 1937 brake system works. One can interpolate from there what needs to be done to one's own car to make the brakes work - provided that Frank and Jay are just a keystroke away from help. I highly recommend the very reasonably-priced video for its historical significance in automotive engineering development, if for no other reason. Highly entertaining, besides being informative. Coming from a video technical training background at Intel Corporation, I can say you can't go wrong with this video that Frank offers. Heck - I find myself re-watching it time and time again because it is SOOOOOOOOOO mid-1930's FoMoCo!!! It's a hoot and a time capsule that also instructs, akin to watching your grandfather question a Ford salesman about why the 1937 brakes are superior to previous brakes. Grandpa, 1937 brakes and a senorous
voice-over narration ala mid-Great Depression era. What more can a guy ask for?
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

Oops! "Compyello" types faster than I do. But then, so does someone who died six years ago.
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

More info for "compyello" -
As an admitted newbie in the V-8 world, I can't speak for the community's opinion of the braking system in 1937 Fords. Maybe it's positive, maybe it's not. Of course, PROPERLY designed and installed hydraulic brakes would be a step up on the food chain of brake evolution. After all, how many new car manufacturers still use a mechanical brake system with brake levers or cables? On the other side of the coin, however, if we are to keep our cars original, where do we stop in upgrading? Coming from the Model A world, I read everyday about newcomers to the hobby questioning the advantage of switching to hydraulic brakes. After 50 years in the Model A restoration game I can categorically state that the original Model A brake system design was more than adequate for the car's weight. The problem I see over and over again is that "restorers" expect that simply slapping in re-lined brake shoes will make their Model A's stop on a dime again. NOT! As with all 1928-1938 Fords, the braking system is a series of levers activated by foot power. If some component is worn, loose or needs lubrication, the system will not operate satisfactorily. I have studied the brake shoe lining width and length, as well as the surface braking area of the drums on my friend's 1937 Ford compared to the Model A, and have come to the conclusion that if anything, the system is OVER-designed. From what I can tell from the design diagrams and measurements, I can't see why hydraulics NEED to replace the original system IF the shoes are kept adjusted and normal maintenance (lubing) is observed. I wish this system had been in place on Model A's from the factory! It's like anything else mechanical - if left unattended or poor maintenance is observed, what else can one expect from brakes other than poor operation? As this was my first experience with early V-8 repairs, I was pleasantly surprised at how well my friend's brakes worked after a few stop and go road test adjustments had been made. And as the shoe linings wear themselves in to reach 100% contact, the braking ability will only improve! I am impressed by the 1937 brakes. I just don't see the need to replace a PROPERLY maintained and adjusted stock 1937 brake system with hydraulics. With my friend's 1937 HEAVY Fordor Sedan, we went from cramming the brake pedal through the floorboards, pulling on the parking brake lever for all we were worth, and praying when we came to stop sign to almost hitting our heads against the windshield after the brake system rebuild. After cleaning, painting, lubing and adjusting, the brakes worked far better than I had anticipated. The Ford engineers knew what they were doing in 1937! As mentioned in my earlier posting, my friend basically said after all this work that the brakes hadn't worked that well since Eisenhower was President. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

To the cleaning, painting, lubing and adjusting sentence in my previous posting, I most definitely need to add that Jay Temple supplied the correct color-coded brake shoe return springs, which were either missing or misplaced when the brake drums were removed. All the cleaning, painting, lubing and adjusting in the world wouldn't have helped if the proper springs had not also been installed. Thanks again, Jay!
Marshall

[compyello]

Ford engineers knew what they were doing in 1937! As mentioned in my earlier posting, my friend basically said after all this work that the brakes hadn't worked that well since Eisenhower was President. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?
It sure does, I am not sure what direction I will go with my 38 but it is some what reasuring that your friend said that and your opinion atleast compared to the model a. Thank you for taking the time to write that up

[sanford]

Best place to see what Ford DVDs I have for sale, as well as other Chevy ones I'll soon be listing, is http://www.fsaudio.biz/forddvds.html

Frank

[FlatheadTed]

For the sake of the hobby its good to have someone offer a A To Z of how to .The 37 to 38 brakes are possible the most misunderstood out there .set up correctly they can work real good as you have found . Ted