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Old 11-25-2011, 04:58 PM   #1
OoltewahSpeedShop
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Default Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

I have what I think, or was told, is an early '29 Sport Coupe. When I bought the car from the original owners son, the top material was gone and he said it was a Sport Coupe. After looking at alot of pictures and doing some research, I'm not sure if it is a Sporty or Business Coupe. There is no evidence of it ever having Landau bars. It's never been modified in any way that I can see.

Is there any way to tell? Here's a few pics of the car, see what you guys think. I posted this question on another thread, but hate to hijack someone elses post.

Thanks,
Kevin
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File Type: jpg user880_pic227_1273274943.jpg (41.7 KB, 523 views)
File Type: jpg Sport Coupe 004.jpg (59.5 KB, 481 views)
File Type: jpg Sport Coupe 012.jpg (61.3 KB, 465 views)
File Type: jpg Sport Coupe 009.jpg (62.1 KB, 411 views)
File Type: jpg Sport Coupe 001.jpg (72.5 KB, 435 views)
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Kevin,
Not to worry I think it was my post {PO51} we are all friends here and just trying to learn and share info. You have interesting pics as I said in the other post never seen a Business Coupe with that center bow or a Sport Coupe with that bracket. I hope someone can shed some light on this!
Steve
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Old 11-25-2011, 06:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Just the fact that it has not had landau irons should identify the car as a Business Coupe. Except for the lack of hardware for oval windows, the top framing appears to be the same as a good friends '29 oval window business coupe. I recently removed and replaced the car's fabric top in order to repair rotten stitching.

Here is a picture of the inside of a oval window Business Coupe off of the forum. You can see the framing is identical except for the window. Search the threads for Business Coupe for more pictures. Gar Williams
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Last edited by Aerocraft; 11-25-2011 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

How about the main hoop? Mine comes all the way down behind the door frame. So, I guess that means it didn't have the oval windows.

Were the oval windows an option? Some had them and some didn't. Right? From the small fragments left of the top material, it was black. Just like the body and wheels. Is it odd that everything was black?
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File Type: jpg IMG_0177.jpg (52.3 KB, 243 views)
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Last edited by OoltewahSpeedShop; 11-25-2011 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

The oval windows were standard for business coupes after about February 1929 (I haven't been able to confirm when they went into actual production, but around hat time; before that, there were no windows). The correct roof material, according to the judging Standards, was black long-short grain top material. The black car on the right (above message) would be a 1928 business coupe. The car in the middle series looks like the oval window is not correct (too small), but it's hard to tell from a photo.

Last edited by 700rpm; 11-25-2011 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Mistyped the year!
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

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The car on the right is a '28 Business coupe. My car was built in Feb '29. according to the stamping on the firewall.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

I believe the window size of the oval window business coupe that I posted is correct. The middle picture of the windows in the OoltewahSpeedShop posting do appear to be too small. Gar Williams
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that until Ford installed the oval windows the brackets and wood bows were the same on both the Sport Coupe and Business Coupe. The new oval window required the new curved metal bracket with the metal support to hold the shortened center/back bow. Hopefully someone with a early 29 Business Coupe can shed some light.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerocraft View Post
I believe the window size of the oval window business coupe that I posted is correct. The middle picture of the windows in the OoltewahSpeedShop posting do appear to be too small. Gar Williams
Gar, that is my coupe in your picture, and the windows are correct, though we determined a couple days ago that they are not in exactly the right position (tilted a little too far forward, and placed a little too far forward). But the top is good and the windows are going to stay that way until I (or somebody) change the top!
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Our 54-A Business coupe was assembled in Feb of 1929, and has no oval window. The 2nd bow, which is set diagonally, runs all the way to the corner behind the door and above the belt line. In the same way as the Sport coupe, it attaches to two triangular metal brackets fastened in that corner.

The car is fitted with the squeeze type hand brake lever right in front of the shifter, has one drum tail light, and the older style headlites without the parking lite. It also has an electric windshield wiper and no vacuum port on the intake manifold. There is no evidence that landau irons were ever applied to the car, IT IS a Business coupe!!

Although I have seen several of the oval window cars over the years, this is the only early style car that I have personally seen. They must not be very numerous at this point in time.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Lycoming-8,
Does you BC have the curved bracket like it shows in the pictures at the begining of this post? I have never seen that combination of brackets and bows on a BC or SC?
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

A couple of pictures of the interior of my Business Coupe. Being early 28, a couple of things concerning the top interior is slightly different from the later 28's.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

So.... From what I see, my car was definitely pre oval window because of the full top bow. In '29 they obviously went to the full rounded bar from the window post down to the 1/4 panel vs. the short bar on John's black car. The triangle bracket in the corner of the door post-1/4 panel area looks alot smaller on my car and John's then the later oval window cars. I checked it thoroughly again today and there is no evidence of Landau bars.

Does all this sound right? If so, I'm fairly certain what I have here is a EARLY '29 Business Coupe rather than a Sporty.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Kevin,
I think you are correct, I have just never seen the curved metal brackets and the full bow used together must have been for a very short time. My March 1929 BC had the short bow, curved brackets and oval windows or so I was told by the orig. owner who took them off and through them away so he could drive it like a "open" car"!
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

"so I was told by the orig. owner who took them off and through them away so he could drive it like a "open" car"!"

Oh, that just hurts.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Yeah and it only took 45 years looking on and off to find the parts to replace what he through away!
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

PO51,

As I looked at those pics last nite I was wondering about those large curved brackets as well. Just did not remember those being a part of our top hardware. Tonite when I saw the pics that had been posted by John Stone I thought "Well now, that is like ours!!"

New question for John, how early is your '28, do you know the month stamped on the firewall??

This is all very interesting, as there has not been such thorough discussion about the business coupes anywhere I have looked. I really appreciate all of the sharing of info and pics.
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

That's what I'm talking about.... A real discussion about the difference between A model Sport Coupes and Business Coupes.

I knew my car was different than any I had seen. I also knew that the EXPERTS would be able to sort it out.

Keep it up.
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Like the others have said, I quite sure you have a Business Coupe; there does not appear to be any evidence of sockets for the lower landau studs and no metal bracket for mounting the upper landau stud. Also, Sport Coupes in 28-29 were equipped with a rumble seat and yours has the standard deck lid.

Ron
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:38 AM   #20
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Default Re: Business Coupe vs. Sport Coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycoming-8 View Post
PO51,

As I looked at those pics last nite I was wondering about those large curved brackets as well. Just did not remember those being a part of our top hardware. Tonite when I saw the pics that had been posted by John Stone I thought "Well now, that is like ours!!"

New question for John, how early is your '28, do you know the month stamped on the firewall??

This is all very interesting, as there has not been such thorough discussion about the business coupes anywhere I have looked. I really appreciate all of the sharing of info and pics.
There is no date stamped on the firewall (there was a time when they didn't stamp numbers on firewalls). The number is 94,478 which the engine matches the frame. That makes it an April car. The Business coupe was not introduced until a little later so this is an extremely early one. Several years ago I corresponded with someone in CA that had and earlier one (#90,xxx). I have the original wood and even saw the original bill of sale and they indicate it is truly a BC. The original title says it was delivered in Carpio ND in July 28. Bought by Custom Cutters and brought back to Kinsley KS in the late 60's. It was unmolested and included the early Ames horn, belt rail, mushroom shift knob, early hood, scriipt shocks with numbered shock arms and Ford Script crank. Too bad they let it sit outside so the the top weathered and fell into the seat and started rusting things. My brother bought it in the 70's and stored it at our Dad's place until I got it in the early 80's and started the restoration. It orginally had blue check interior which I couldn't find so it was done in grey. Showed it at the first World Meet in 1986. Pretty well a hanger queen ever since. I think it has about 2500 miles.

A couple of things about the top, there were 4 cloth straps across the top rather than 3 and the metal staps at the back actually bent over the back of the main bow rather than in front of it. I used the originals as patterns.

That is about all I can think of right now. Really didn't think many people were interested in BC's.
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