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Old 12-30-2011, 07:20 PM   #1
wildwilly
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Cool E-85 ???

Has anyone tryed running this E85 gas in their old girls to find the good an bad of this fuel ???
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:21 PM   #2
OoltewahSpeedShop
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Default Re: E-85 ???

If you want to run E85, I'd get another carburetor and have it set up to run the fuel. It will take about 15-20% more flow to make it run right.

The advantages are:
1. It will make more power
2. It will burn cleaner
3. It is a 15% USA grown Corn
4. It costs less than straight gasoline
5. It runs ALOT cooler than gas. Water temps are 30-60* cooler

The dis-advantages are:
1. You will use more of it compared to pure gasoline
2. You cannot let it sit in the tank/carburetor for extended periods
3. You cannot find it nationwide (yet)...
4. You will have to block off part of the radiator in cold weather

If the carburetor is set up to run E85, it will run great, make more power, and the water temp in the summer will never be an issue again. Other than being a little cold natured, using a little more fuel, and planning your down time. It's all good.

Best thing is, if you want to go back to pure gasoline.... Drain the tank, swap the carb, and you are back in business in 15 minutes.
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:30 PM   #3
wildwilly
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Default Re: E-85 ???

Thank you for your awesome feedback. This is well informed.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:17 PM   #4
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: E-85 ???

E-85 make more power??????????
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: E-85 ???

I am not a proponent of ethanol in gas. It is said it costs more in diesel fuel to make the ethanol than it is worth. It is a windfall for farmers, but I see no advantages for motor fuel. Not a big problem with modern fuel injection, but carburetors hate it, especially in engines that are not run frequently. Others have different opinions, but that is mine and I am sticking with it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: E-85 ???

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What does the setup on the carb consist of? Bigger jet for more flow? Can a stock carb deal with it for tank full just for kicks?
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: E-85 ???

Do Canadians have less problems with using Canadiqn corn??? Gord B by the Bay
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: E-85 ???

Ethanol is an oxygenated fuel. You need much more ethanol to achieve the proper air/fuel ratio than you would with gasoline.

Ethanol advantages:
1. Absorbs moisture in the fuel tank
2. Ethanol raises the octane rating (true E85 will have an octane rating of 100-105)
3. Cleans the fuel system
4. Reduces CO emissions since it is oxygenated.

Ethanol disadvantages:
1. Can result in plugging of the fuel system because of its cleaning action.
2. Raises volatility which can cause hot weather driveability problems.
3. 60,000 to 70,000 BTU per gallon compared to 130,000 BTU per gallon of gasoline which means you will use alot more of it.
4. Absorbs water and settles out with the water when sitting.

I see no reason to mess with it in a vehicle not designed to run on E85, much less a Model A.

Not saying it can't be done properly, I just don't see why anyone would do it. There is nothing wrong with trying it to see what happens but if you had to make any modifications to make it run properly I cannot see any benefit.

Where I am at you can readily purchase E85 and know many people that have because of the price difference. Does not work unless it is a flex-fuel vehicle but even then fuel economy is down.

Pete

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Old 12-30-2011, 10:03 PM   #9
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: E-85 ???

My friend has a newer car that is flex fuel, so just for the heck of it he tried a tank of E-85. He said the price difference wasn't worth the drop in fuel economy and power. I've also heard of a few guys that used E-85 on a regular basis in their flex fuel pickups and cars and had to have their engines rebuilt with less than 70,000 miles on them.

I wouldn't even use the crap to clean parts because it leaves a sticky residue.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: E-85 ???

It also has a tendency to wash the oil off of the cylinder walls from what I read in a report on alcohol in fuel because of its cleaning attribute.And it will damage any rubber fuel related parts.10% ethanol is bad enough on my old cars.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:42 AM   #11
John LaVoy
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Default Re: E-85 ???

Several years ago we contacted the Ethanol Association and they did not recommend using it in a Model A.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: E-85 ???

It's the Devils own brew. I like Hagerty's stance. Sell E85 next to marina (boozeless) real gas.

Let customers vote with their logic and pocketbooks.

And I'd like a nice steak, so can we cut out the Corn subsidy that is crushing the ranchers?

/begs apology for tripping over politics ban!
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: E-85 ???

To answer your question,there is a person who has been running his model T on E-85 for 6 months or so. He discusses this experiment in a thread at MTFCA forum.

Here is the link http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1325291399

Happy New Year,John
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: E-85 ???

One clarification from an otherwise good commentary, E85 is 85% ethanol, not 15.

At midnight tonight the ethanol pricing structure may change. The Federal subsidy of .45 per gallon will expire. But, the .54 tariff on imported ethanol falls off too. However, the mandate to use ethanol as an oxygenate will still be in affect. So, we'll still be required to use it, but depending on what choices the marketers make will determine price. In theory, "normal" gasoline with 10% ethanol will likely rise 4.5 cents, E85 could be somewhere around .40 higher per gallon.............unless imported ethanol is cheaper and is chosen.

I will refrain from discussing the politics of this and the notion that the money comes out of one pocket or the other in the final analysis.
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Old 12-31-2011, 12:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: E-85 ???

The attempted move to 15% (E15) ethanol is receiving major push back from engine manufacturers.

First the EPA approved E15 for cars 2007 and newer, then EPA changed that to 2001 and newer. But car mfgs are holding the line saying anything greater than E10 should be for flex fuel vehicles only. Motorcycle mfgs are saying E15 will be destructive, same with snowmobiles and small engine mfgs.

What I don't get - what someone above pointed out - why use something that actually ends up costing you more to use (lower price more than offset by needing to use more to travel the same distance) and is potentially harmful to your mechanicals?

JMHO

(PS - off topic - Tom W - did you get my private message?)
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:16 PM   #16
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: E-85 ???

I have seen cars that state that the warranty will be void if anything higher than 10% is used.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: E-85 ???

[QUOTE=bogiediver;334492]The attempted move to 15% (E15) ethanol is receiving major push back from engine manufacturers.

First the EPA approved E15 for cars 2007 and newer, then EPA changed that to 2001 and newer. But car mfgs are holding the line saying anything greater than E10 should be for flex fuel vehicles only. Motorcycle mfgs are saying E15 will be destructive, same with snowmobiles and small engine mfgs.

What I don't get - what someone above pointed out - why use something that actually ends up costing you more to use (lower price more than offset by needing to use more to travel the same distance) and is potentially harmful to your mechanicals?

JMHO

To answer your question, its politics,something we don't discuss here. The politicians taking money out of your pocket and transferring to who they think will give them the most power.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: E-85 ???

Ethanol certainly has its downsides (not the least of which is political), but as mentioned earlier it also has a few upsides. From a purely performance standpoint, because ethanol contains 34.7% wt. oxygen, it "chemically leans" the fuel-air mixture and E85 could be expected to reduce range by almost 30% except ethanol has a high latent heat of vaporization and will increase the density of the incoming air (methnaol is higher and is one reason it's used in race engines). The denser air will allow more power to be made at a given manifold pressure (throttle position) and helps to offset the deficit in Btus, albeit not a lot. It will swell elastomers particularly in a high aromatic gasoline, it is miscible in water and it will clean out fuel systems - bummer. It's high octane number doesn't do much for Model Aers (remember our engines can run on kerosene) and water/alcohol separation may be less of an issue with our cars than modern cars; there are additives that prevent or reduce phase separation. The neat thing about Model As is that you can turn the GAV to richen the mixture significantly, perhaps allowing enough additional fuel so that re-jetting is unnecessary for E85. Using stoichiometric air/fuel ratios of 14.6:1 for all-hydrocarbon gasoline and 9.0:1 for E100, E85 would be about 9.8:1, or about 33% richer than "normal". If you prefer to drill jets, I believe it's the area of the jet hole that will need to be increased ~33% to get you started (old Holley advice). Good luck! Oh, and a very Happy and Healthy New Year to all!!
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