Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2020, 08:33 PM   #81
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 2,106
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by shew01 View Post
Hmmm... I did not see any insulating washer. There are two screws on the condenser. Which one is supposed to have the insulating washer? The screw that is recessed into the distributor (on the driver side)? Or, the one on the passenger side of the distributor?
Driver side, the recessed screw, insulating washer is inside the dizzy.

Ya you got it running!!!!
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2020, 09:01 PM   #82
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 820
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big hammer View Post
Driver side, the recessed screw, insulating washer is inside the dizzy.

Ya you got it running!!!!

Thanks. I see the screw and washers on the Bratton’s site. I plan to make an order soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-27-2020, 09:33 PM   #83
GRutter
Senior Member
 
GRutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mint Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 162
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

I disagree with installing an insulating washer when installing the condenser.
You want a good tight electrical connection between the end of the condenser and the tang on the lower distributor plate assembly.

An insulating washer in this location does not contribute to a better electrical connection with the condenser.

Be certain that the screw does not bottom-out in the condenser to insure that you have a tight electrical connection.

I see that part on Bratton's site, but have never seen an insulating washer documented anywhere else.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Model-A-Distributor-Ass-y-1045.pdf (108.3 KB, 20 views)
GRutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2020, 12:14 PM   #84
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,046
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

The washer does not go between the condenser and tang.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg distributor-02.jpg (65.8 KB, 49 views)
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2020, 06:41 PM   #85
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 2,106
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Thanks Bob ! That's the washer I was talking about.
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2020, 09:10 PM   #86
GRutter
Senior Member
 
GRutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mint Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 162
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
The picture from BobC from 2004 does not accurately portray the original distributor assembly.

The condenser was held in place to the body of the distributor by part 26457-S7 (#8-32x1/4" cadmium screw)

A lock-washer - part 34842-S (#8 heavy lockwasher) was placed under the head of that screw.

The condenser was screwed to the lower plate bus bar with part 27053-S5 (#10-32x3/16" copper screw)

An insulating washer in that location serves no electrical purpose, and would require a longer screw to accommodate the thickness of the insulating washer, and it would place the head of the screw closer to the distributor body, where it is more likely to short out.
GRutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2020, 09:39 PM   #87
Mulletwagon
Senior Member
 
Mulletwagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 374
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Interesting caper. Can't process voltage at the fixed point. Just curious - is there continuity between the fixed point (points open, key off) and say a head bolt ? Seems like something amiss in the distro. Please share the solution when known.
Mulletwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2020, 10:04 PM   #88
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,046
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulletwagon View Post
Interesting caper. Can't process voltage at the fixed point. Just curious - is there continuity between the fixed point (points open, key off) and say a head bolt ? Seems like something amiss in the distro. Please share the solution when known.

See post #77.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2020, 08:11 PM   #89
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 820
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

This evening, I got a permanent fix in place. A fellow club member let me have a spare ammeter that he had put away a while back. The car starts fine again.

I also got a spare distributor from a club member for the next time I have ignition problems. I need to check that out while the car is working. ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2020, 01:05 PM   #90
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,019
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Try sanding the points , even if they are new .
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2020, 01:19 PM   #91
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 615
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
The washer does not go between the condenser and tang.
Altho I do have used the fiber washer in the past, I have always wondered what it's purpose is/was? Is it just used for a backing for the "wax like plug"?

I don't have that washer installed at the present because it doesn't allow the "new" rubber plug now available to seat properly. Not original but keeps the dust out.
__________________
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2020, 08:54 PM   #92
GRutter
Senior Member
 
GRutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mint Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 162
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

See my post #86 above and look at the Ford Parts Price List.
There is no fiber washer that I have seen documented, nor does it make sense to put an insulator at that location. The head of the copper screw is part of the electrical connection.
GRutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 06:19 PM   #93
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 789
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Okay guys I have the same problem only different - Maybe. First off I don't have a fuse in my start circuit and have done everything that was suggested to shew 01. I did all the basic trouble shooting and found no problems. My problem started when I had a Mallory dist. The car was running fine then no start. I replaced the Mallory with original dist. New upper and lower plates (modern), every thing that was suggested for 01's problem was tried. In trouble shooting
every ignition component was replaced 1 by 1 from my running car except for the new condenser that came with the new upper plate. For the life of me I can not get a high tension spark - note, once again every thing was replaced from a running car (and put back) on the running car. The T box and Inst. panel harnesses were replaced. On the ammeter I just disconnected both wires and clamped them together. Perhaps Ryan could start a new thread - I am sure I will get many responses. HELP, as a fire won't help with no insurance. Lights work.

John

Last edited by aermotor; 10-11-2020 at 06:26 PM.
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 07:01 PM   #94
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 789
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Pretty neat that jg61hawk got it right on thread post #2

John
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 07:50 PM   #95
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 615
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Yeah, happens a lot. A person asks a question but does not follow or understand the advice. Then the thread turns into a lesson in frustration for every one.
__________________
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"

Last edited by Ruth; 10-12-2020 at 04:28 PM.
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 12:23 PM   #96
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,290
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
Okay guys I have the same problem only different - Maybe. First off I don't have a fuse in my start circuit and have done everything that was suggested to shew 01. I did all the basic trouble shooting and found no problems. My problem started when I had a Mallory dist. The car was running fine then no start. I replaced the Mallory with original dist. New upper and lower plates (modern), every thing that was suggested for 01's problem was tried. In trouble shooting
every ignition component was replaced 1 by 1 from my running car except for the new condenser that came with the new upper plate. For the life of me I can not get a high tension spark - note, once again every thing was replaced from a running car (and put back) on the running car. The T box and Inst. panel harnesses were replaced. On the ammeter I just disconnected both wires and clamped them together. Perhaps Ryan could start a new thread - I am sure I will get many responses. HELP, as a fire won't help with no insurance. Lights work.

John
Were the points gapped/timed when the distributor was installed using the timing pin and with the spark lever at full retard?



With the timing pin locating top TDC and spark advance at full retard does your rotor/distributor body look like this?


----------

What year is your A? On 29s and later with Ignition on and cranking the motor you should see a slight wiggle on the Ammeter of about 1-2 amps. The 1-2 amp wiggle indicates the points opening closing in a working ignition primary circuit.

Includes - wiring, ignition switch and wiring, coil primary, points, ammeter, condenser not shorted, and the distributor shaft is rotating.

If the ammeter is showing a constant discharge with the ignition switch on then a possible shorted condenser, or there are other possibilities.

I am not familiar enough with the pop out style ignition switch, but have heard that a defect switch/cable will cause a no start/ignition symptom.

Using a voltmeter or test lamp you can troubleshoot.

-----------
If the above ammeter test works then space a spark plug strap lead about 1/8 inch away from a spark plug, ignition on, use the starter rod under the hood to crank the motor and you should see a nice blue spark.


If no spark then check -
that the Rotor is installed correctly and when the cap strap springs are released the cap should spring up slightly which indicates the rotor contact plate is mating against the cap contact.


the high voltage coil wire contacts on the lead, coil, and dist cap. Ohm wire for extremely low ohms.


the coil secondary. Ignition off, remove the large coil wire a the coil, remove both small wires on the coil terminals. Ohm from the large coil wire contact to each small terminal individually - should be 7 K ohms to 15 K ohms.


Hope this helps, you possibly have been through all or part of this, sometimes helps to start over and check again.
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 12:29 PM   #97
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,290
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Picture of the distributor Body/rotor, did not go through on above post.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Rotor, TDC Timing PIn Cylinder 1.pdf (142.9 KB, 17 views)
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 06:52 PM   #98
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 789
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Thanks all for the responses. Got it running by jumping the ammeter. I guess the ammeter is often missed as it is not really emphasized in all the trouble shooting procedures. I did not consider it since it's only about 3 mos. old and the needle acted normal for my car - mostly day driving w/o lights and it was starting very easy so not much battery drain. Lesson learned, just because it's new from a reputable supplier doesn't mean it isn't junk and not to overlook that possibility.


John
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 07:56 AM   #99
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,290
Default Re: Car Will Not Start--No Apparent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
Thanks all for the responses. Got it running by jumping the ammeter. I guess the ammeter is often missed as it is not really emphasized in all the trouble shooting procedures. I did not consider it since it's only about 3 mos. old and the needle acted normal for my car - mostly day driving w/o lights and it was starting very easy so not much battery drain. Lesson learned, just because it's new from a reputable supplier doesn't mean it isn't junk and not to overlook that possibility.


John

New repro ammeters are known to be problematic, is best to find an old original ammeter. Perhaps post here on the Barn and see if someone has an original they will sell you. Otherwise search Internet/Model A sites, and if you spot them at a swap meet pick up a couple as spares. Originals are getting harder to find.


I do not know if there is anyone who repairs them. Others on the Barn may know and can chime in.
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 AM.