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Old 08-31-2019, 12:04 PM   #1
cajunfirehawk
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Unhappy flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

(UPDATED)

While I was working on the front of my 36 Flathead I ordered a pair of new improved water pumps with the ceramic bearings and I installed them late last night, this morning I go to crank it up and one of the NEW pumps is not rotating past a certain point it will lock up solid, I cannot even budge it with channel locks, see remedy below!


Sorry for the rant, just had to vent.
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Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:14 PM   #2
petehoovie
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Have you removed it from the cylinder-head to inspect it yet?
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:16 PM   #3
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Exclamation Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by petehoovie View Post
Have you removed it from the cylinder-head to inspect it yet?
No, I was done for the day after this incident and have plans to go out w/my family for an early dinner today but over the long weekend I will investigate further. Other than the obvious, anything to look for?
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Sorry you are having issues. I have Dennis pumps in my 39 coupe and in my 52 F1.

Truck 2 years
Car 5 years

No issues.

However I should mention. Since the truck needed so much work, the pumps sat on my shelf for over 6 months. When I was ready to install I noticed one of the fins had a crack. I called and while long after purchase they replaced the pump free of charge. I can’t recall if I paid for postage to return damaged pump.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunfirehawk View Post
No, I was done for the day after this incident and have plans to go out w/my family for an early dinner today but over the long weekend I will investigate further. Other than the obvious, anything to look for?

Maybe something accidentally fell into the pump like a bolt or a nut....
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

caj,
I have had good results on two recent builds.....'34 and '36 with DC head mounted pumps. Drain it and see what's going on, the guy at DC will ask that when Tuesday rolls around.
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Old 08-31-2019, 02:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Did it spin before it was installed? Sometimes new stuff doesn't work. I changed plugs in a modern ride due to a miss. The brand new plugs I installed had one bad one in the box. This caused a lot of more work till I got back to the plugs!
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Old 08-31-2019, 02:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

I'll check into all of that in the morning, its been cooler in the early mornings here on the Gulfcoast lately (come on early fall!) and I'll will take it off in the morning.

Thanks Gents.

PS: please lets all say a prayer that all of our hot rod friends and families in Florida stay safe from the hurricane, its starting to look really bad!
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

My guess would be the impeller May be hitting the cylinder head. I’ve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
My guess would be the impeller May be hitting the cylinder head. Iíve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
This would be my guess as well. Even with authentic pumps one must be careful with the installation as the pulley will occasionally interfere with the cylinder head. Easy fix obviously... just move the pump a bit before final fastening.
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:36 PM   #11
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Talking Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
My guess would be the impeller May be hitting the cylinder head. I’ve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!



Yes, after further review, your right on the money Michael! After I cleaned this up with a grinder and was super careful to protect the surrounding area and inside of the head of debris, all is well now.

Pics below from L to R
  • poor casting, not full circle, impeller hitting
  • close up, wow the 80+ yrs of rust!
  • new pump on L, old on R, where is the originals impeller?
  • like going to the dentist; magnets used to catch metal shavings, and greasy paper towel in head
  • all done, works like new, note that killer 3rd gen dizzy down below...
  • tool for this task
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190824_090343.jpg (27.9 KB, 166 views)
File Type: jpg pump1a.jpg (20.5 KB, 92 views)
File Type: jpg pump2ab.jpg (20.3 KB, 92 views)
File Type: jpg pump3a.jpg (20.6 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg pump4a.jpg (9.6 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg pump5a.jpg (20.1 KB, 89 views)
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Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:39 PM   #12
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Thumbs up Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Iíve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
I kind of assumed they came from the same manufacturer can you tell me what you like better about the drake units versus the D.C. untis? If memory serves I tried to order them from B.D. but maybe they were out at the time or super high shipping rates maybe?
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Hi; About 'files' too big? Set your camera to the least pixels possible for posting 'files'.... photos to us normal folks. Newc
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

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Hi; About 'files' too big? Set your camera to the least pixels possible for posting 'files'.... photos to us normal folks. Newc
Its my phone and yes, the files are massive but the odd thing is, the 1st pic above was taken with the same phone and it worked?



Pics uploaded above!
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Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 09-01-2019, 05:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunfirehawk View Post
I kind of assumed they came from the same manufacturer can you tell me what you like better about the drake units versus the D.C. untis? If memory serves I tried to order them from B.D. but maybe they were out at the time or super high shipping rates maybe?


My reasoning for liking the drakes better is small. I only keep carpenter pumps on hand as I am a carpenter dealer but not a drake dealer. In the attached photos you will see the drake pumps have slightly more impeller vane surface area and a tighter tolerance in the housing. Either way both have ceramic seals and modern sealed bearing which in my opinion is superior to original bushing designs for a driver type car. For a show car they are not correct.

.IMG_6570.jpg


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Old 09-01-2019, 06:37 PM   #16
cajunfirehawk
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Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
My reasoning for liking the drakes better is small. I only keep carpenter pumps on hand as I am a carpenter dealer but not a drake dealer. In the attached photos you will see the drake pumps have slightly more impeller vane surface area and a tighter tolerance in the housing. Either way both have ceramic seals and modern sealed bearing which in my opinion is superior to original bushing designs for a driver type car. For a show car they are not correct.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks again Michael, just to confirm, the Drake pump is on the right... BTW; I picked up one of your helmet "11 a" dizzys and whoever is responsible for those does great work, thanks!
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1936 FORD Tudor Slantback



Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:32 PM   #17
35fordtn
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Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Actually the drake pump is on the right side of the photo. A side by side trail showed no real difference in cooling temperatures... but a side by side with a original did.

Thanks for the comments, we are a very small husband and wife business and I do all the rebuilding work.
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:09 PM   #18
cajunfirehawk
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Talking Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Actually the drake pump is on the right side of the photo. A side by side trail showed no real difference in cooling temperatures... but a side by side with a original did.

Thanks for the comments, we are a very small husband and wife business and I do all the rebuilding work.
When you see the impellers on my original pumps..wait I cant see any impellers, lol
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pump2ab.jpg (20.3 KB, 65 views)
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Well done on finding the cause of the problem. Sometimes you just have to get in there and get your hands dirty. It gives you a great sense of satisfaction when you encounter a problem, identify the cause and effect a solution.
And by sharing it, it can help others avoid the same problem.

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Old 09-02-2019, 06:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

The same thing can happen with Skips pumps on the 21 stud engine due to the large impeller.
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