The Ford Barn

Ian NZ · 10-02-2017, 09:42 PM

I have dismantled a two brush generator for a 1947 Ford V8. which I want to rebuild.
On the back plate all I removed was the bearing cover and the gasket and bearing which seems to seat into a recess in the back plate 3/4 inch deep the 6203Z bearing is only 12mm wide is this correct, are some of these parts missing.
It seems there should be a felt seal and a washer then the bearing fitted which is held up against the washer by a screw on the end of the shaft.

flatheadmurre · 10-03-2017, 12:23 AM

Odd looking backplate...they usually are bushings.
My guess is looking at it...since it has the ability to ad oil...it was originally not a sealed bearing and the person that installed the sealed bearing tossed away the felt seals and the retainer pieces for it.

cas3 · 10-03-2017, 08:40 PM

i have one like that too. its also is extra long and would hit the carb on a stock single manifold. no idea what its for, but it did have the pulley i was after!!

Ian NZ · 10-04-2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3

i have one like that too. its also is extra long and would hit the carb on a stock single manifold. no idea what its for, but it did have the pulley i was after!!

I have two of that type of those generators and they must be shorter than your type because they fit in and do not hit the carburettor. Has yours got the cover 10142 to fit over the brush end of the housing, both of mine have no covers. I was wondering if all the generators for the 1946 - 48 Ford V8's have covers for this end. I am making up a depressed washer and felt to fit into that end, plus securing the bearing with a washer and a screw on the end of the shaft.

Ken/Alabama · 10-04-2017, 07:35 PM

Could it be for Ford Tractor?

Ian NZ · 10-04-2017, 08:06 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The generators I have fit a Ford V8 24 stud engine.

cas3 · 10-04-2017, 08:18 PM

ford tractor would have a front and rear mount like most inline engines i believe, however, here is a pic. i plan to rob the pulley off it, and then the cover, or the whole thing can be yours if you want to ship it. skip

koates · 10-04-2017, 08:49 PM

Ian, I finally got to check my stash of generators. I remember working on these double bearing generators when I was much younger. The one I have has a field casing with the slots at the brush end and is exactly 6 inches long. The front cast end mounting bracket has the number 21A 10139 cast in. That is 1942 Ford. I always thought these double bearing gens were on trucks or military vehicles or maybe military Ford cars, just a guess. I removed the 3 screws and rear bearing cover and gasket. The open bearing has a flat washer, a spring washer and a slotted hex head screw that screws into the threaded hole in the end of the armature shaft. No spacers on the outside end at least. The flat washer just covers the inner bearing diameter. I have not removed the bearing. You could fit a new double sealed bearing or a single sealed bearing with the shield/seal facing inwards. These are very good heavy duty generators. Hope this is of help to you. Regards, Kevin.

Ian NZ · 10-04-2017, 09:38 PM

Kevin thanks for the reply, I would say you would be right that these generators could be off military vehicles. The 6203Z bearing which is 12 mm wide fits into a 3/4inch deep recess in the
back cover so what I am doing I will make up a 8mm felt seal, then a depressed washer, and the bearing will fit against washer. and then I will make a washer and 1/4 inch N.F, screw to hold the bearing on. There is no cover on brush end of the field casing, is this normal as all the three brush generators have this cover.

Cas3, Thanks for the offer but I will be O/K.

cmbrucew · 10-04-2017, 09:51 PM

Ian
The same bearing is used in the flywheel for the pilot shaft.
Available with single and double shields.
Bruce

koates · 10-04-2017, 10:05 PM

Ian, No cover over the generators that have only slots. Cover bands over the larger brush openings of earlier generators. You don't need to fit felt seals or washers in between the bearing and the 3 screw cover. As the armature heats up in operation the shaft expands/lengthens a little and the outer bearing is designed to slide a little in the end housing so as not to put undue end pressure on the balls in the race. In a generator which has a bush in that end that problem does not exist. You don't have to re engineer or fix what is not broken. Just fit a new double sealed bearing ( 6203ZZ)in there and leave it as it was with the centre screw, flat washer and spring washer holding the bearing to the shaft. Using the double sealed bearing you wont have to put oil in the oiler cap. Regards, Kevin.

flatheadmurre · 10-04-2017, 11:58 PM

Military stuff designed and produced around WW2 wasn´t produced with anything more then that was needed for a very short life span...so putting in a rollerbearing instead of a bushing costed money...warproduction wanted cheap large volumes.
I may be wrong but my guess is an industrial/comercial aplication.
Is the field/armature different for a higher output ?

koates · 10-05-2017, 01:30 AM

flatheadmurre. For starters this bearing is not a roller bearing its a ball bearing. War time equipment was built to specific designs and specifications to be long serving and tough under even tougher conditions. Don't know where you got the idea that war production equipment was cheap. It was some of the best equipment ever produced. There are a large number of variations in ford generators with a wide variety of applications and current outputs. War time as well as industrial/ commercial applications were very varied. Check through your Ford parts books in the generator section to see what I am saying. What was your point in your post anyway ?? Regards, Kevin.

Ian NZ · 10-05-2017, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

Ian, No cover over the generators that have only slots. Cover bands over the larger brush openings of earlier generators. You don't need to fit felt seals or washers in between the bearing and the 3 screw cover. As the armature heats up in operation the shaft expands/lengthens a little and the outer bearing is designed to slide a little in the end housing so as not to put undue end pressure on the balls in the race. In a generator which has a bush in that end that problem does not exist. You don't have to re engineer or fix what is not broken. Just fit a new double sealed bearing ( 6203ZZ)in there and leave it as it was with the centre screw, flat washer and spring washer holding the bearing to the shaft. Using the double sealed bearing you wont have to put oil in the oiler cap. Regards, Kevin.

Thanks Kevin, I will do that. I have a 6203ZZ bearing to go in.

10-03-2017, 12:23 AM	#2
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Two brush generator Odd looking backplate...they usually are bushings. My guess is looking at it...since it has the ability to ad oil...it was originally not a sealed bearing and the person that installed the sealed bearing tossed away the felt seals and the retainer pieces for it.

10-03-2017, 08:40 PM	#3
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,571	Re: Two brush generator i have one like that too. its also is extra long and would hit the carb on a stock single manifold. no idea what its for, but it did have the pulley i was after!!

10-04-2017, 07:35 PM	#5
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,260	Re: Two brush generator Could it be for Ford Tractor?

10-04-2017, 08:06 PM	#6
Ian NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Taranaki, New Zealand Posts: 922	Re: Two brush generator Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The generators I have fit a Ford V8 24 stud engine.

10-04-2017, 08:49 PM	#8
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Two brush generator Ian, I finally got to check my stash of generators. I remember working on these double bearing generators when I was much younger. The one I have has a field casing with the slots at the brush end and is exactly 6 inches long. The front cast end mounting bracket has the number 21A 10139 cast in. That is 1942 Ford. I always thought these double bearing gens were on trucks or military vehicles or maybe military Ford cars, just a guess. I removed the 3 screws and rear bearing cover and gasket. The open bearing has a flat washer, a spring washer and a slotted hex head screw that screws into the threaded hole in the end of the armature shaft. No spacers on the outside end at least. The flat washer just covers the inner bearing diameter. I have not removed the bearing. You could fit a new double sealed bearing or a single sealed bearing with the shield/seal facing inwards. These are very good heavy duty generators. Hope this is of help to you. Regards, Kevin.

10-04-2017, 09:38 PM	#9
Ian NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Taranaki, New Zealand Posts: 922	Re: Two brush generator Kevin thanks for the reply, I would say you would be right that these generators could be off military vehicles. The 6203Z bearing which is 12 mm wide fits into a 3/4inch deep recess in the back cover so what I am doing I will make up a 8mm felt seal, then a depressed washer, and the bearing will fit against washer. and then I will make a washer and 1/4 inch N.F, screw to hold the bearing on. There is no cover on brush end of the field casing, is this normal as all the three brush generators have this cover. Cas3, Thanks for the offer but I will be O/K.

10-04-2017, 09:51 PM	#10
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: Two brush generator Ian The same bearing is used in the flywheel for the pilot shaft. Available with single and double shields. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

10-04-2017, 10:05 PM	#11
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Two brush generator Ian, No cover over the generators that have only slots. Cover bands over the larger brush openings of earlier generators. You don't need to fit felt seals or washers in between the bearing and the 3 screw cover. As the armature heats up in operation the shaft expands/lengthens a little and the outer bearing is designed to slide a little in the end housing so as not to put undue end pressure on the balls in the race. In a generator which has a bush in that end that problem does not exist. You don't have to re engineer or fix what is not broken. Just fit a new double sealed bearing ( 6203ZZ)in there and leave it as it was with the centre screw, flat washer and spring washer holding the bearing to the shaft. Using the double sealed bearing you wont have to put oil in the oiler cap. Regards, Kevin.

10-04-2017, 11:58 PM	#12
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Two brush generator Military stuff designed and produced around WW2 wasn´t produced with anything more then that was needed for a very short life span...so putting in a rollerbearing instead of a bushing costed money...warproduction wanted cheap large volumes. I may be wrong but my guess is an industrial/comercial aplication. Is the field/armature different for a higher output ?

10-05-2017, 01:30 AM	#13
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Two brush generator flatheadmurre. For starters this bearing is not a roller bearing its a ball bearing. War time equipment was built to specific designs and specifications to be long serving and tough under even tougher conditions. Don't know where you got the idea that war production equipment was cheap. It was some of the best equipment ever produced. There are a large number of variations in ford generators with a wide variety of applications and current outputs. War time as well as industrial/ commercial applications were very varied. Check through your Ford parts books in the generator section to see what I am saying. What was your point in your post anyway ?? Regards, Kevin.