Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-04-2019, 02:37 PM   #41
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 6,992
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

My "280" engine was a 276. L-100 engine I was going to supercharge. Unfortunately ny Partner died ansd I had to leave the shop and build one of my own. The truck went into vegetation, I opened the hood and found no spsrk plugs were in the engine. So it came apart. I bout a set of .020" over 3 5/16 pistons from Egge (145 over), put in an EAB cam milled a set of EAB heads for /045" piston to head clearance. Bored out a Merc intake for a 2GC carb installed a converted SBC dist. WE put in the RTS trans a 44A dana real with 3.73 gears and went after the Weston/ Andover hill a 14% grade. Bet my friend George it could make it in OD at 50 mph, starting at 50 mph.
I lost, went over the top at 43, engine was turning 1300 RPMs. The thing is a torque monster. Might put the 3.30 back in.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 02:51 PM   #42
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 3,460
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

[QUOTE=David Lien;1795475]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
Not sure about the tag. It;s amazing how a thread on street engines, can shift to transmissions. Not that I mind. However I think that modifying the trans to work with the original rear is going backwards and is an unnecessary expense.

OK Old Ron
How about a stock cam shaft in a 276 Cu. In. 59 AB engine used for street driving???. Do I really need a different (( hotter, bigger, faster, cam)). I Never get more than 100 miles from home. Car is a 1946 ford coupe that has 81,000
miles on the engine and car. Engine is coming out this month, I have 4" crank turned and ready to go. I also have pistons, rings, new valves and Guides, Gaskets. NOW IF I KEEP THE LIFTERS AND CAM ALL TOGETHER and not mix the lifters up, MAYBE I can reuse the Cam. MAYBE THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA.??? WHAT SAY YOU???. This thought is not money driven, But the car now starts easy, even in the winter, and is pleasant to drive. No slipping the clutch or always keeping the RPM up. I have been driving 46-48 fords for most of 65 Yrs., and I know what it is like to drive a flathead ford that is not lazy. I would really like to hear Old Rons, and others thoughts on this. Has any one here ever run a stock cam with a 276 Cu, In. engine, one carb and stock heads. I would like to thank all you guys for this site, and all the knowledge that is here. David
What you are proposing was one of the most popular modified stock car racing engines there was in the 50's. Yes, your proposed combination will work fine, EXCEPT, it is NOT a good policy to use a used cam and lifters. You may get away with it but there is a good chance it will fail early. Have your cam reground stock or to 53 Ford EAA grind and have the lifters refaced. It is cheap insurance.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-04-2019, 04:38 PM   #43
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 209
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Much of this transmission talk, has been, based on competition gearing and I believe that by far, the membership of this forum are restorers and cruiser's so, most any of the T-5's would be usable transmissions and better, overall, than the '39 box. Even ones with the 3.5, 3.76 and 4.03, first gear. The RTS has a place here, too. In all cases, the gearing is better that the standard early Ford gearing.

For example, one of the T-5, 3.76 first gear trans, has almost identical ratio's as the 25 tooth Zephyr OD transmission, with a extra 3.76 first gear. Meaning you can run a higher final drive ratio. What be could be wrong with that? There are times when you may want that low first gear, such as a parade.

For actual racers (very, very few) the way that you gear the car, is to gear for the top speed that you can attain at the track you run and then, select the closest gear set that you can find, that has a progressively smaller rpm splits as you increase speed. The engine has to work harder as speed increases, mostly because of aerodynamic forces. i.e. It basically takes 4 times the HP, to double your speed, all other thing equal.

I both drag raced and road raced. In road racing, first gear (5 speed trans), isn't to important, as it's purpose is to get you started w/o stalling and at all the tracks that I ran, you didn't get much under 60 mph, second gear covered that. There was a exception, in Formula Ford, you could only use 4 speed trans so, it was geared so that 1st gear was usable (all gears can be changed) but, they had a hard time getting to speed and had to slip the clutch but, we had rolling starts so, it was just out of the pits and when you sat on the grid, that it mattered.

A racer doesn't care about gas mileage, he wants to burn as much as he can, in the time allotted.

A cruiser wants a easy to drive car. Starts off easy, runs quite and has as good a gas mileage, as possible. A street race to a cruiser last a few seconds and usually ends by 60 mph.

Here is a very extensive list of gear sets for different cars that had the T-5.

Frank
Attached Files
File Type: pdf T5 Numbers.pdf (84.2 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by frnkeore; 09-04-2019 at 06:35 PM.
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 04:49 PM   #44
Lawrie
Senior Member
 
Lawrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Qld, Australia
Posts: 3,237
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Long range, we run a 265 cuin 99a engine in our 33, stock 33 cam,stock 33 manifold and 97 carb, stock 3 speed trans,(48 gearset) stock 33 rear end 3.78.
this tows our caravan all day at 50-55 mph, Its a really nice engine, could do with a bigger carb for sure but its very nice like it is.
Lawrie
Lawrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 06:07 PM   #45
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 12,920
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Just like any vehicle, you want it to drive like a truck, use truck gears, you want it to drive like a car, use car gearing, you want it to drive like a high performance car, use high performance gearing. A weak engine is another reason for wide ratio gearing.

Racing is a whole different world.

Last edited by JSeery; 09-04-2019 at 09:33 PM.
JSeery is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 07:02 PM   #46
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 5,197
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
the Ford T-10 to the dealer was $205, back in the 60's.

Yup, and my '65 Corvette coupe with eleven options was only $5,500 back in the '60s, too. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


I may not be the BEST, but I'll do 'til he gets here!




V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 09:11 PM   #47
Tinker
Senior Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN/FL
Posts: 4,853
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrie View Post
Long range, we run a 265 cuin 99a engine in our 33, stock 33 cam,stock 33 manifold and 97 carb, stock 3 speed trans,(48 gearset) stock 33 rear end 3.78.
this tows our caravan all day at 50-55 mph, Its a really nice engine, could do with a bigger carb for sure but its very nice like it is.
Lawrie

You have to respect this. It's quite great!
Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 11:18 PM   #48
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 6,992
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Pete, we need a grind like the EAB/EAC with alittle more lift. I use the rotators on the sterrt engines that use up to .350 lift and only 45/50 lbs of spring pressure. so I don't think i have to worry about the cam. The big prise here is the torque and fuel mileage.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 11:57 PM   #49
Talkwrench
Senior Member
 
Talkwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,311
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
You have to respect this. It's quite great!
Indeed it is. You really have to understand how remote the areas Lawrie travels too as well.
__________________
"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"
Talkwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:31 AM   #50
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 691
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

... or if you need to pull some stumps out ;-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by frnkeore View Post
For example, one of the T-5, 3.76 first gear trans, has almost identical ratio's as the 25 tooth Zephyr OD transmission, with a extra 3.76 first gear. Meaning you can run a higher final drive ratio. What be could be wrong with that? There are times when you may want that low first gear, such as a parade. Frank
Attached Images
File Type: jpg T5 & Zephyr 25T Comparo.jpg (44.9 KB, 17 views)
glennpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:39 AM   #51
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 6,992
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Let's not forget, we're talking "street vehicles" here. I do have a T-5 in the roadster..
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:53 AM   #52
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 12,920
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

The stock Ford gears should give a good hint as to the best 1st gear. Depending on the transmission they were:

Ford 1st gear ratios were: 2.820, 3.114 & 3.520

Zephyr 1st gear ratios were: 2.820, 2.330 & 2.120

The 2.95 & 3.35 T5 gears are a fairly good fit, with the 2.95 being the better of the two.

There is really no reason to bring racing issues into a street gear selection discussion. With racing there are just be many variables and specific applications to have much relevance on street driving. Math is math and physics is physics, but the application/environment is very different.

Last edited by JSeery; 09-05-2019 at 10:05 AM.
JSeery is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 12:48 PM   #53
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 209
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

My point was/is, that all of the T-5's (including the 4.03 first) are at least as good or better than the standard '39 (85 HP), gearing of 2.82, 1.604 and direct. The top 4 gears of the 4.03 trans are, 2.37, 1.5, direct and .82 OD. They are similar to the 26 tooth Zephyr of 2.33, 1.577 & direct, with a OD bonus.

Frank
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 01:31 PM   #54
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 12,920
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Guess we just have to disagree.
JSeery is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 01:45 PM   #55
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 209
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Guess we just have to disagree.
Yes
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 04:40 PM   #56
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 6,992
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

I don't call it a disagreement, just a difference of opinions. Allot of good information here, learn sumpin every day, Till they throw dirt un ya.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 06:52 PM   #57
flatford8
Senior Member
 
flatford8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lyman,ME.
Posts: 1,342
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

I’ve learned a lot from this thread and this “ learn sumpin every day, Till they throw dirt un ya.“.....is now my philosophy on life!!!!....LOL.....Thanks, guys.....Mark
__________________
I'm thinkin' about crankin'
My ragged ol' truck up
and haulin' myself into town.
Billy Joe Shaver
flatford8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 07:00 PM   #58
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,929
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Funny, I remember something that Pete said a while back. With a hot flatland, LZ gears may help a guy not break as much stuff for the take off torque isn’t as high as a 28 or 29 tooth gear set. I may have to go this route with 296 ci and a tad over 200 hp
Tim Ayers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 08:52 PM   #59
Ronnieroadster
Senior Member
 
Ronnieroadster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: East Coast in CT
Posts: 537
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Funny, I remember something that Pete said a while back. With a hot flatland, LZ gears may help a guy not break as much stuff for the take off torque isnít as high as a 28 or 29 tooth gear set. I may have to go this route with 296 ci and a tad over 200 hp



Oh boy there goes the fuel economy LOL
__________________
I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
Ronnieroadster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 09:01 PM   #60
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,929
Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster View Post
Oh boy there goes the fuel economy LOL
Haha. Yeah and I have you to blame!

Well, I have a 1 mile commute to work. Between a full house flat head, straight exhaust headers made out of '36 Ford drive shafts and a light, AV8 roadster powered by a 296 ci flatty put together by one of the best out there, I think I'll be able to wake up the kids for school as I drive by.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 09-06-2019 at 05:45 AM.
Tim Ayers is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 AM.