The Ford Barn - View Single Post - The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry Burtz, Calif · 08-23-2019, 01:59 PM

I want to thank everyone for Emailing encouraging comments and asking questions. Sometimes 2 or more people ask the same question. When this happens, I just pick one question to answer. Questions are unedited with the exception that I remove last names. It takes 2 days to send the updates by Email to contacts on my Email list because my free Hotmail account will only allow me send 500 BCC Emails in a 24 hour period, and I can only send 50 at a time.

Terry,
I see your back on the new engine. I have a few questions, first is what size are the main bearings @ inch like the B?, will it be oil pressurized? will the cam bores be larger than stock, are you going to use the Model B exhaust port design which flows better?
Thanks
Bill

All 9 bearing journals (rods and mains) on the crankshaft are specified to be between 2.0000 and 1.9990 inch diameter with .125 inch fillet radii. The insert chosen is used in GM engines built from 1955 to 2003. Front, center and rear mains use a pair of inserts. Intermediate mains (2 and 4) and connecting rods use a single insert. The insert is Sealed Power #2020CP. Do a Google search and you will find many sources.

Oil pressure will be supplied to all 9 crankshaft bearings. There are 5 camshaft bushings that are replaceable. The front, center, and rear camshaft bushings will have oil pressure supplied to them. The #2 and #4 camshaft bushings will block off the drilled oil passages. The engine builder will leave these passages blocked if using a 3 bearing camshaft. If using a 5 bearing camshaft, the bushings should be drilled to provide oil pressure.

Inside diameter of camshaft bushings is specified to be between 1.5615 and 1.5625 inch diameter which is stock Model A. If you wanted larger camshaft bores in the cylinder block for a higher lift camshaft, just remove the camshaft bushings and let the larger camshaft journals ride on the cast iron cylinder block like a stock Model A.

Exhaust ports are stock except that they have replaceable hard seats (MAHLE 218-7535). Intake ports have a streamlined flow path however they are stock size. Engine builders are usually concerned about intake port flow, not exhaust port flow. Intakes do not have hard seats so they can be enlarged by engine builders for larger valves.

More can be found at http://www.modelaengine.com

Hi Terry,
Great news. I think it’s really going to happen this time it sounds like you connected with the right people.
I attended one of your seminars at your house after one of the castings came back
and saw first hand what your doing.
My comment is that maybe you should also consider a flywheel as the counter weights add some mass that could be taken out of the flywheel and it would also be nice to have it made to take the modern diaphragm clutch people are using.
The flywheel cost would probably be in line with what it costs to lighten and modify
A stock one.
Thanks for getting going again,
Dodge

My fingers are crossed in anticipation that the design will become reality. I believe that we have the right team to pull this off. A much lighter weight flywheel will be our next project. John, our team member that is responsible for manufacturing and quality assurance has flywheels manufactured in China for another application. For some unknown reason to me, Ford cast Model A flywheels in a vertical position instead of horizontal. If you were to lighten a stock flywheel, porosity (on the side that was up while casting) is always opposite to the balance hole. We will cast flywheels horizontally with the ring gear side up so any porosity will be on the ring gear side. Our new flywheel will also have the ring gear support shoulder on the other side of the ring gear so that engagement of the Bendix will not apply forces that want to remove the gear instead of pushing it harder against the shoulder.

Hi Terry, nice to see that you are making progress on the motor. My local foundry have just completed a totally new design for twelve cylinder Ferrari cylinder heads, also new inlet
manifold for six webber ( special short Ferrari type) outstanding job. They are also casting V8 85 twin spark cylinder heads from original patterns.
If you have any further trouble give them a call. Mr Robin Hyhof, Giltec Catings Dunedin.
They have done some complex castings for me in both alloy and bronze.
Cheers,
Ken

That sounds like a very capable foundry in New Zealand. Thank you for the contact information. Unfortunately, Model A people are cheap and cannot afford the same things that Ferrari people throw money at.

Hello Terry

Congratulations on getting your engine project going again. Will the new blocks accommodate five-bearing camshafts like the early 1928 Model As? That would provide better cam support for running overheads.

In the past you mentioned using roll pins to index the bearing caps to the engine block. Are they sufficiently stable compared to dowel pins?

Best regards,--Carl

See the answer to Bill at the beginning where I talked about 5 cam bushings, replaceable cam bushings, oil pressure, removing cam bushings for a higher lift camshaft, etc.

Instead of roll pins, I specified 1/8 inch diameter x 3/8 inch long dowel pins (McMaster Carr 98381A470). The cylinder block will have a press fit and the main cap will have a slip fit.

Roll pins are nice because hole diameters do not need to be as precise.

Terry,
Thank you for the update. I. Appreciate being kept in the loop. Perhaps thus would make a great mate fir our Cyclone A-B Cylinder Head.
Thx
Kevin

All stock interfaces for attached parts have been documented from Ford drawings so any after-market parts will work if they fit a stock Model A engine.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone builds one of these up with a supercharger and electronic fuel injection. A cast steel crank option would be good for that. Gregg

Iron foundries usually pour cast iron and malleable iron alloys. Steel parts are usually poured in a different foundry. It could be done but at a higher cost.

Terry
Will assembly be in China? Or US?
Joe.

The "New Engine" consists of a cylinder block, crankshaft, and 4 connecting rods.
These will be loose parts and the engine builder will have his choice of pistons, rings, camshaft, valve train, timing gears, insert bearings, etc.

The only assembly that will be done in China is wrist pin bushings in the connecting rods, dowel pins at the connecting rod cap interface, camshaft bushings in the cylinder block. 10 dowel pins in the cylinder block for main cap indexing, 2 dowel pins in cylinder block to align flywheel housing, 4 hard seats in the cylinder exhaust ports, 2 dowel pins in the crankshaft for flywheel alignment, and the Woodruff key in the crankshaft.

Is there a real need for camshaft bearings? Will the crank be hardened so it won't wear in the bearing areas? Will the main and rod bearings be available "off the shelf", i.e. small block Chevy or similar, or special made for your engine? Jim

Modern engines have replaceable cam bearings, and that is why we chose to use them. For a stock engine with light valve spring pressure, cam bearings are not needed. If someone wanted to make a new camshaft with higher lift lobes, the camshaft bearings could be removed and the larger camshaft journals on the new camshaft would ride on the cast iron cylinder block.

The crankshaft will have the same material and heat treat as similar crankshafts being made.

Front, center and rear mains use a pair of inserts. Intermediate mains (2 and 4) and connecting rods use a single insert. The insert is Sealed Power #2020CP which is used in many 4,6, and 8 cylinder engines and they were used from 1955 until 2003. The inserts are very common and they were used in small block Chevy's and many other engines. They are available at most any auto parts store and even from Amazon and Ebay.

08-23-2019, 01:59 PM	#71
Terry Burtz, Calif Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Campbell,CA, USA Posts: 319	Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track. I want to thank everyone for Emailing encouraging comments and asking questions. Sometimes 2 or more people ask the same question. When this happens, I just pick one question to answer. Questions are unedited with the exception that I remove last names. It takes 2 days to send the updates by Email to contacts on my Email list because my free Hotmail account will only allow me send 500 BCC Emails in a 24 hour period, and I can only send 50 at a time. Terry, I see your back on the new engine. I have a few questions, first is what size are the main bearings @ inch like the B?, will it be oil pressurized? will the cam bores be larger than stock, are you going to use the Model B exhaust port design which flows better? Thanks Bill All 9 bearing journals (rods and mains) on the crankshaft are specified to be between 2.0000 and 1.9990 inch diameter with .125 inch fillet radii. The insert chosen is used in GM engines built from 1955 to 2003. Front, center and rear mains use a pair of inserts. Intermediate mains (2 and 4) and connecting rods use a single insert. The insert is Sealed Power #2020CP. Do a Google search and you will find many sources. Oil pressure will be supplied to all 9 crankshaft bearings. There are 5 camshaft bushings that are replaceable. The front, center, and rear camshaft bushings will have oil pressure supplied to them. The #2 and #4 camshaft bushings will block off the drilled oil passages. The engine builder will leave these passages blocked if using a 3 bearing camshaft. If using a 5 bearing camshaft, the bushings should be drilled to provide oil pressure. Inside diameter of camshaft bushings is specified to be between 1.5615 and 1.5625 inch diameter which is stock Model A. If you wanted larger camshaft bores in the cylinder block for a higher lift camshaft, just remove the camshaft bushings and let the larger camshaft journals ride on the cast iron cylinder block like a stock Model A. Exhaust ports are stock except that they have replaceable hard seats (MAHLE 218-7535). Intake ports have a streamlined flow path however they are stock size. Engine builders are usually concerned about intake port flow, not exhaust port flow. Intakes do not have hard seats so they can be enlarged by engine builders for larger valves. More can be found at http://www.modelaengine.com Hi Terry, Great news. I think it’s really going to happen this time it sounds like you connected with the right people. I attended one of your seminars at your house after one of the castings came back and saw first hand what your doing. My comment is that maybe you should also consider a flywheel as the counter weights add some mass that could be taken out of the flywheel and it would also be nice to have it made to take the modern diaphragm clutch people are using. The flywheel cost would probably be in line with what it costs to lighten and modify A stock one. Thanks for getting going again, Dodge My fingers are crossed in anticipation that the design will become reality. I believe that we have the right team to pull this off. A much lighter weight flywheel will be our next project. John, our team member that is responsible for manufacturing and quality assurance has flywheels manufactured in China for another application. For some unknown reason to me, Ford cast Model A flywheels in a vertical position instead of horizontal. If you were to lighten a stock flywheel, porosity (on the side that was up while casting) is always opposite to the balance hole. We will cast flywheels horizontally with the ring gear side up so any porosity will be on the ring gear side. Our new flywheel will also have the ring gear support shoulder on the other side of the ring gear so that engagement of the Bendix will not apply forces that want to remove the gear instead of pushing it harder against the shoulder. Hi Terry, nice to see that you are making progress on the motor. My local foundry have just completed a totally new design for twelve cylinder Ferrari cylinder heads, also new inlet manifold for six webber ( special short Ferrari type) outstanding job. They are also casting V8 85 twin spark cylinder heads from original patterns. If you have any further trouble give them a call. Mr Robin Hyhof, Giltec Catings Dunedin. They have done some complex castings for me in both alloy and bronze. Cheers, Ken That sounds like a very capable foundry in New Zealand. Thank you for the contact information. Unfortunately, Model A people are cheap and cannot afford the same things that Ferrari people throw money at. Hello Terry Congratulations on getting your engine project going again. Will the new blocks accommodate five-bearing camshafts like the early 1928 Model As? That would provide better cam support for running overheads. In the past you mentioned using roll pins to index the bearing caps to the engine block. Are they sufficiently stable compared to dowel pins? Best regards,--Carl See the answer to Bill at the beginning where I talked about 5 cam bushings, replaceable cam bushings, oil pressure, removing cam bushings for a higher lift camshaft, etc. Instead of roll pins, I specified 1/8 inch diameter x 3/8 inch long dowel pins (McMaster Carr 98381A470). The cylinder block will have a press fit and the main cap will have a slip fit. Roll pins are nice because hole diameters do not need to be as precise. Terry, Thank you for the update. I. Appreciate being kept in the loop. Perhaps thus would make a great mate fir our Cyclone A-B Cylinder Head. Thx Kevin All stock interfaces for attached parts have been documented from Ford drawings so any after-market parts will work if they fit a stock Model A engine. I wouldn't be surprised if someone builds one of these up with a supercharger and electronic fuel injection. A cast steel crank option would be good for that. Gregg Iron foundries usually pour cast iron and malleable iron alloys. Steel parts are usually poured in a different foundry. It could be done but at a higher cost. Terry Will assembly be in China? Or US? Joe. The "New Engine" consists of a cylinder block, crankshaft, and 4 connecting rods. These will be loose parts and the engine builder will have his choice of pistons, rings, camshaft, valve train, timing gears, insert bearings, etc. The only assembly that will be done in China is wrist pin bushings in the connecting rods, dowel pins at the connecting rod cap interface, camshaft bushings in the cylinder block. 10 dowel pins in the cylinder block for main cap indexing, 2 dowel pins in cylinder block to align flywheel housing, 4 hard seats in the cylinder exhaust ports, 2 dowel pins in the crankshaft for flywheel alignment, and the Woodruff key in the crankshaft. Is there a real need for camshaft bearings? Will the crank be hardened so it won't wear in the bearing areas? Will the main and rod bearings be available "off the shelf", i.e. small block Chevy or similar, or special made for your engine? Jim Modern engines have replaceable cam bearings, and that is why we chose to use them. For a stock engine with light valve spring pressure, cam bearings are not needed. If someone wanted to make a new camshaft with higher lift lobes, the camshaft bearings could be removed and the larger camshaft journals on the new camshaft would ride on the cast iron cylinder block. The crankshaft will have the same material and heat treat as similar crankshafts being made. Front, center and rear mains use a pair of inserts. Intermediate mains (2 and 4) and connecting rods use a single insert. The insert is Sealed Power #2020CP which is used in many 4,6, and 8 cylinder engines and they were used from 1955 until 2003. The inserts are very common and they were used in small block Chevy's and many other engines. They are available at most any auto parts store and even from Amazon and Ebay.