[ghford]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ok, let's start over between my initial answer to your questions.


To begin with, I must confess that although I have been involved in this Model-A hobby, -both as a hobbyist and as a professional for over 50 years now, I was unaware that the term Town Car and Town Sedan were used interchangeably. For that I do apologize.


Since I was unaware that you were speaking about a Town Sedan, -and please understand why in that confusion I did not follow your line of questioning, so maybe this will explain why I answered as I did. Based on my research, the Town Sedan itself was never designated to have Brown Check fabric either. The only Checked material that I knew that was used was the early 1929 Murray T/S, and that was dropped and all Town Sedans were specified to have either Mohair or Bedford with Woodgrained mouldings installed. Therefore I trust you can see how when you mentioned brown check being installed in a Town Car, I was confused with your question.


The book I referred you to is the 'Model-A Restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards', often referred to by restorers & hobbyists as the "Judging Standards". That book has been constantly revised for over 4 decades by a team from both national clubs using Ford factory written documentation along with certain unmolested vehicles as the foundation for its writings. Because of this team's ongoing research, these multiple revisions to this book make it the most accurate resource for knowing what is authentic. Much about the Model-A has been learned in the past 2 - 3 decades.


Speaking as someone who owns a Model-A upholstery shop, -and one that has spent a long time researching what is authentic on upholstery, I can tell you that based on my experiences, none of the manufacturers (both past & present) are producing kits that are accurately sewn or authentic in details such as fabric. Even though our installations are more accurate and authentic than the offerings of kit manufacturers, -even we cannot be exact in all of the original details due to obsolescence of certain fabrics and materials ...and the ROI it would take to manufacture those items is just cost prohibitive. So again, this is an area where if you are desiring authenticity, it is my opinion that the first source of information should come from looking at assembly drawings found at the Benson Ford Library in Dearborn, MI. Next would be reviewing Engineering Releases and Foreman's notes.




I will leave you with this group of thoughts that are not just my thoughts, -but are the findings of men that have spent countless hours upon hours doing research studying factory foreman's logs, printed purchase orders, task cars, prints, and the like. Ford founded his company (-and revolutionized this nation) on the premise of perfecting a plan where there rarely was a mistake. You will hear of folks telling about anomalies of Model-As, -and yes there were a few however much of what we like to believe happened, never truly did.


For example, you often hear about how substitutions made -or parts being used up however these scenarios were documented in daily written Foreman's logs. To begin with, each department had a very detailed and regimented task list given ahead of time for the Foremen to implement for that work day. Therefore each foreman knew exactly what the scope was, ...and if he failed to meet his orders, disciplinary action was taken. Also understand that Ford knew exactly which vehicle was to be assembled that day, they knew the time in which it would happen, and even knew other exacting details such as which color vehicle and which parts would make up that vehicle. Based on Foreman's logs, we know the bodies were trimmed and inspected prior to being sent for assembly. In other words, mistakes like installing incorrect trim schemes just did not happen as it would have been addresses prior to that body ever being moved to the assembly line. With regard to Agencies (Dealers) doing interior swap outs, the evidence of this happening is so remote simply because of the logistics of how they would have obtained the materials to do so. The labor would have been so cost prohibitive to do the change-out, and Ford did not have the provision to sell yard goods of materials. Therefore if someone did want a trim scheme change, they likely would have found a local tailor that would have used a different fabric other than the one Ford manufactured for their vehicles.


So bringing this full-circle, ...can I prove that variations were never made? No, -but by the same token can you prove that it did? This is not meant in a hateful or arrogant tone, -but I am asking can you prove with documentation that it did happen? My reason for being so bold on saying the likelihood that it did not happen is this would likely have been discussed extensively as Ford's protocol was it would have been listed in the daily Foreman's Log on several occasions as in the Trimmer Foreman's notes, the Quality Foreman's notes, the Shipping Foreman's notes, the Staging Foreman's notes, and the Assembly Line Foremen's notes. Each one of these foremen has specific orders for the item in which they were to handle. I trust this all makes sense. If not, please take some time to actually research this in person at the archives and then we can discuss facts and opinions further then.


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Thank you for this lengthy post which took a lot of effort. You are an intelligent and knowledgeable person who has offered a strong opinion which is just what is needed on a controversial subject. It is not in agreement with every opinion posted in reply nor need it be. In fact difference in opinion is exactly what must be expected and what must be in order for all of us to learn. Call me a pot stirrer but without an exchange no one learns and we exchange with respect as a brotherhood of gentlemen. In that I speak generally, not targeting anyone. Everyone has learned something here even if it is as little as that I do not know what to call this or that model, but what I want to stress again is that my questions are only to try to find answers to what I have seen.

Fine to pick me apart, (again not targeting anyone in particular) my shoulders are broad, but don't let me catch you doing so to the elderly man who taught me. Fred was a good friend and neighbor who came from an Oklahoma farm. He had a '31 Pickup and was only one person among so many I have known who always called the "Town Sedan" as the "Town Car". Remembered as the best Ford in the day sold to the general public. What then, is the best Ford sold to the general public in modern times? If I am wrong I may be thrashed royally for this one, but to me and to so many it is the "Lincoln Town Car". See where I am going with this? "Town Car" is as was even though he who's tongue slips knows technically it was the "Town Sedan" and he does not confuse it in his mind with the limo model. So for me to call "Town Sedan" instead "Town Car", I later referred to as "slang". That is to say it is inappropriate wording but don't think I didn't know the difference. It just did not occur to me that considering that the latter being so exceedingly rare, anyone would think I was comparing it to a Standard Fordor in interior appointments. Not even I would think the factory or the dealer was dressing down the limo. I do apologize for anyone and everyone I offended but the hell of it is the people who know me will tell you that is just mild compared to other "slang" I use on a daily basis, HA! My best to all!