The Ford Barn - Seat belts

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- Model A (1928-31) (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

- - Seat belts (https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94324)

I realize there have been plenty of posts on this subject but I would like to know what the MAFCA and MARC ideas / policies / thoughts are concerning the actual placement of the belt anchors in the various car models. I realize it is up to each car owner to decide whether they want belts in their cars or not. Thanks, Bill

i use them (lap belts) to keep me out of the windshield .

You are probably not going to get the type of information (in writing) from any company or orginazation due to the liability. Best you can do is pictures from someone that has done it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by springerpete (Post 569678)

You answered your own question, "I realize it is up to each car owner to decide whether they want belts in their cars or not.

I have a never read anything "offical", that is from the leadership, about seat belts attachment points.

I have read in the magazines and on the internet about never attaching seat belts to the frame because when the body separates from the frame in a crash your top will be separated from your bottom. I have seen hundreds upon hundreds of period car crashes but never seen one where the body is separated from the frame.

In process of finishing lengthy installation of (6) sets of lap belts in a mid-1930 Briggs Town Sedan with all wood sub-frame; (3) sets front, (3) at rear seat.

A. Front Reinforcement:

1. Under car, a 2" x 2" x 1/8" full width angle iron, (with leg down at rear side), under wood cross rail immediately behind front seat with ends of angle iron bolted to steel chassis with existing wood/steel sub-rail bolt.

2. On top of said wood cross rail, 2" x 1/8" full width flat bar thru-bolted to angle iron below with 1/2" diameter Grade 8 bolts.

3. Out-sides of front seat, same flat bar above thru-bolted to a 12" long, (front to back) 2" x 2" x 1/8" steel angle below, (with leg down, one on right & one on left), under horizontal part of running board sheet metal splash shield.

B. Rear Reinforcement:

1. Under car, a 2" x 2" x 1/8" full width angle iron, (with leg down at front), under rear wood cross rail immediately behind rear seat with ends of angle iron bolted through existing wood bolt holes with new Grade 8 hex bolts.

2. Cut out small horizontal notches in bottom rear angle iron to fit adjacent to the (2) rear bumper arm cross sill brackets.

3. Inside car, behind rear seat, a 2" x 2" x 1/8" full width angle iron, (with leg up at rear), on top of the rear wood cross member with ends of angle iron thru-bolted through same existing wood bolt holes at ends, mentioned above, with same new Grade 8 hex bolts.

4. Cut out (2) notches in the top interior angle iron, (at rear), to fit the steel centered rear spare wheel reinforced support.

5. Thru-bolt top steel angle to bottom steel angle in several locations & thru-bolt top angle to bottom angle through all (8) bolt holes in the (2) steel rear bumper brackets.

C. Seat Belt Attachment:

1. May be home made angles or steel angle accessories provided by seat belt companies or other means.

2. Interior seat belt attachment bolts are minimum 7/16" diameter Grade 5, fine thread bolts with lock washers.

D. Crash Tests:

1. The above installation was never tested in a crash; hence, for liability purposes it is not hereby formerly recommended as an accepted or recommended design.

2. Never found seat belt recommendations for seat belt installations in Model A's provided by seat belt manufacturers or recommended in private or Government safety regulations.

3. It is solely up to car owners to decide first if they want seat belts, & second, exactly how they want to design & install them in their own vehicles.

1/8" !? I certainly would want a lot more than that.
When i installed belts in my 32 coupe in '62 I used plates 3/8" thick and about 8"x 8".

JMO
Paul in CT

I've seen too that it has been suggested in different publications that it is not recommended to attach to the frame because it might cause problems if the body separates from the frame. If I was to do that in my 29 AA I might as well use bacon for lap belts.
Eggs anyone?
Dave

In looking at my 1930 Coupe, something one may want to be cautious with in providing seatbelts in sheetmetal framed Model A bodies is that even though the thin transverse steel metal subrail body channels may "sound" stronger than wood, just give it an "actual" stress test as compared to the solid 2" x 6" hardwood cross members provided with solid wood framed Model A bodies bolted to a steel chassis.

One could jump on the centrer of span on the flat hardwood 2"x 6" all day long for several months & it would never budge while spanning about (4) feet; however, if one jumps on one of the thin sheet metal cross members once; well, rather than going into structural calculations & details, just try it to see what happens.

A heavier single, steel angle or different steel shape would be required to resist front seat, seat belt uplift forces at mid-span if one has to rely on a providing a single new steel structural member.

However, with wood bodies, with a 1/8" steel top flange & a 1/8" steel bottom flange securely attached to a solid 2" x 6" wood web, one can structurally calculate the difference in uplift resistance as compared to just a solid wood member or even a thin sheet metal member.

Model A's were manufactured when nobody even dreamed of installing seat belts so it helps to investigate each different body style prior to trying to install seat belt anchor reinforcement.