Brake Adjustment Question
 

I just spent a few hour straightening the rear brake rods on my 1929 Phaeton and then trying to adjust all four rods/brakes to perform correctly.

- At 25 MPH, how long should it take to bring a Model A to a full stop (distance wise what is "typical")?

- Do I need to worry if my car's brakes are not producing a "skid" on a paved road if I hit the brakes hard (but aren't standing on them)?

I adjusted the brakes using the Les Andrews "brake stick" method. Any input/thoughts/suggestions would be great. I want to get the car's brakes working optimally.

Thanks - Seth

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

search "brake adjust" and you will find much discussion on this. The thread Bill refers to is probably this one:

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...t=brake+adjust

since your rods were bent, they will need to be adjusted after you set the adjusting wedges. In a system with all new parts, that's pretty straightforward, but when the parts are worn, you have to compensate for the slop in the system by manually taking it out as you adjust the rods. Once that's done, the stick can get you to a good starting point, but it won't be perfect. You will have to drive it and tweak it further.

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Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

Pat and Marco, I think part of the problem is that I am not quite understanding what the "play/slop" is that I am trying to adjust out of the system. Could someone elaborate a little on this?

In my process, I've set the adjusting wedges on each brake and "backed off" a few notches. I then used the stick-distance method to try to get the wheels to approximately grip/drag/lock at the 1/1.5/2 inch settings. If a wheel wouldn't cooporate (by locking up too soon or not soon enough), I adjust rod legnth using the clevis adjustments. I then treated this as an itterative process and kept repeating until I was sick of the process and the wheels seemed to mostly cooperate.

Is there something I missed?

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

Seth, the slop can occur at every joint and bushing in the service brake system. So you want to be sure that the clevis and pin joints are snug. There are bushings at the ends of the equalizer bar and on the brake arms. The fits need to have no side to side movement. There are also pins inside the brake drums. Same story. If these are sloppy, the brakes are impossible to set properly. BTW, the notches are at inch intervals as I recall. Please check as I may be remembering incorrectly.

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

You should get a copy of the Ford Service Bulletins for setting up and adjusting your brakes.

From the service bulletins:

"......pull the brake pedal all the way back until it is against its stop - then adjust the rod until there is about 1/16” clearance between end of rod and rear flange of center cross member (leaving a little clearance between end of rod and cross member prevents any possibility of the end of the rod rubbing against the cross member and causing a squeak).

"After adjusting the brake pedal to cross rod, assemble side pull rods to brake operating and cross shaft end levers. When assembling the side pull rods, pull the brake operating levers on the front axle back and the brake operating levers on the rear axle forward (taking up all idle movement). Then with the levers in this position adjust the side pull rods so they can be assembled to brake operating and cross shaft end levers.

Next adjust brakes by turning up the adjusting wedges as described on page 202 of the January, 1928, Bulletin. After the brake rods have been correctly adjusted car owners should be notified that this adjustment must not be altered. Service brake adjustments must be made only by means of the adjusting wedge at each brake."

From page 202:

"Make all adjustments with brakes cold. Jack up all four wheels. Release hand brake lever. See that wheels revolve freely. Turn the adjusting wedge at each brake (not the pull rod) until the brake drags, then back off the wedge 2 or 3 notches or just enough to allow the wheels to revolve without drag. On new cars brakes will sometimes drag slightly for ¼ or ½ revolution, due to slight high spots. Some judgment must be used in setting such brakes, for if the adjusting wedge is backed off sufficiently to allow the wheel to revolve freely, the brake pedal will go all the way to the floor board when the brakes are hot. A slight drag in one or two spots will do no harm, as the brake will soon free up when the car is driven a short distance and the brake drum slightly expands due to the heat generated. For this reason, brakes should not be adjusted with the drums hot, as when the drum contracts upon cooling it would cause the brakes to drag. To insure correct equalization have one man only check the brake pressure by rotating the wheel. If the above adjustments are correctly made the brakes should operate as follows:

1. Rear brakes should just start to hold when brake pedal is depressed approximately 1 inch.
2. Depressing pedal about 1/2 inch farther should tighten but not lock rear brakes and cause front brakes to just start to hold.
3. Depressing pedal approximately another l/2 inch should lock rear wheels and hold the fronts very tightly. With properly adjusted brakes this should not exceed one-half of the total possible pedal movement.

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

Are the adjustments described in the Service Bulletins the same as Andrews Book? I recall them being 1" rather than 1/2" but would like to clarify. Thanks.

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I don't have the book on me, but remember them being 1" rears sticking a little, 1.5" rears draging a lot and fronts a little, 2" rears locked fronts dragging a lot.

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Remember that the adjusting procedure on page 202 of service bulletins applies to the early 28 single brake system,all though most of it applies to all A,s.The 3-piece cross shaft is totally different on the early cars.

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I checked Les Amdrews book last night. The 1", 1/2" and 1/2" measurements correspond to his advice. Just my poor memory.

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i figure if i stop before i hit the car in front of me , i did good ..... cushion is the key .

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

Very true Steve. Then again, if I add some old couch cushions to the front bumper, I would add more cushion in the event I didn't start stopping soon enough.

I may just put the Phaeton back on stands and tweak things once or twice more. I would still like to know I have the ability to lock the brakes up if that is what they are supposed to do.

Re: Brake Adjustment Question
 

After reading the continuing thread, it seems to me I might have mis understood your first post. I was assuming the brakes just needed a simple adjustment and the rods were slightly bent. I probably should have asked for further clarification. Now I am beginning to wonder. Were the rods bent almost 90 degrees? That's an old shade tree trick to get more brake when the shoes are so worn there is no more adjustment.

Regardless, if you cannot get it right after a simple adjustment, there is more wrong.

Yes, Model A brakes should lock up easily when they are correctly installed.

There's a very high probability yours are worn beyond serviceability. That would be typical, unfortunately. I see guys all the time who have big, expensive new cars and an A, but who are too cheap to do the brakes right. Then there are those who have no money and try to make it work on a shoestring. Yours could have been owned by one of those guys.

Its probably time to pull the drums and have a look. If your shoes are not centered, they will never work right. If the shoes have been driven uncentered long enough, they will never work right even after repairing the tracks as they are now worn off center. Worn tracks are probably more common on most A's out there today than we would like to admit . The vast majority of A brakes I run across with complaints similar to yours range from just plain worn out to nightmarish situations like only one working brake on a thin drum.

Pull the drums, check the shoe contact to the drum by looking at the wear mark on the linings. It should show full contact on both shoes. check that the rivets are more than 1/32 inch from the surface of the lining. Check the cam shaft wobble in the back. There should be none. Check the tracks...they should be flat across, not worn in a crescent shape. Check to see if the roller pins are installed correctly and not backwards. Check to see if the actuator arms are 15 degrees forward. Measure the drum diameter or thickness to see if they are turned too far.

If your brakes are badly worn, the only solution is to restore them. There are no silk purses from sow's ears with mechanical brakes. The good news is, contrary to the common mis-perception, mechanical brakes can be very effective if all the worn parts are restored to original specs. Locking up the wheels should be something you can do easily..