Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

My 1930 Coupe starts, but each time I wonder if it will because the engine just barely turns over before it miraculously fires up. Sometimes when I press the starter pedal there is just a click and the engine doesn't turn at all. In those cases, if I release and re-depress the pedal it will then turn over, but again, just barely.

The starter was rebuilt about 35 years ago and I doubt that the car had more than 100 miles before being put into storage for the last 30 years.

I'm in the process of reviving it now and have a new 6V battery rated at 700 CCA and 875 CA. I'm still using that original starter, but I replaced the push switch that attaches to the starter body.

I'm wondering if anyone has seen anything similar to this behavior and if the solution is a stronger battery or a new rebuild of the starter?

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Battery! Have it load tested! Even if you think its good!I went thru 3 batteries (new) finally went to a NAPA Battery.Check your Grounds to frame Shiny and bright>>!!

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

I would start by making sure that the battery is fully charged, just because it's new doesn't mean that it's fully charged. Then a load test. Most auto parts stores can do that for you. Check all of your connections for clean and tight and no paint between them. If all of the above does not help then have the starter checked out

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

It is very possible that in the 30 years that it sat it developed a bad ground connection. Check all of your grounds and clean them and see what happens.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Another possibility, is the cables are bad, or the end connections to battery and frame. You’ll need a volt meter to diagnosis the cables them selves.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

One way to get an idea is to put a voltmeter directly on the battery, then engage the starter. Next put the voltmeter directly on the starter, including grounding to the starter body then engage starter. The readings should be basically identical. If not, trace the loss back to the battery. As said above, it could be a cable or connection issue.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Ground cable connection to frame clean, and bright, a copper bolt was OEM. Add a stainless steel star washer. A second ground cable from the same frame bolt to the bell housing. Both cables sized for the 6 volt system.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

All great suggestions AND.....Check to see if the copper strip on the starter switch is good and clean, especially where the strip hits the copper bolt/lug.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

All of the above suggestions can cause this. In my case, I could not find a battery cable large enough (wire size) for my liking. 6 volt batteries won't perform well on typical auto parts store battery cables. I went to Ebay and bought some custom cables the wire size I needed (the bigger the better) and the correct color/length I needed. Not too bad in price considering they will last me decades. My starting issue was solved.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Use your voltmeter to find the problem. Put one lead on the terminal on top of the switch and the other on one of the starter bolts. Make sure that the bolt has a bright spot not covered in rust or paint. File or sand as necessary.

Measure the voltage before starting the engine. It should be about 7 volts if the battery is fully charged. If not then charge the battery before proceeding.

Leave the ignition off. Have someone step on the starter button. If the voltage remains near 7 volts or only drops to about 6 then the switch or starter motor are bad. Since you say you replaced the switch then that would mean the stater is bad.

If the voltage drops to about 4 volts or lower then there the battery is bad or there is resistance in the cables, either ground or the one to the starter switch.

If you get a low voltage when running the starter motor, then measure the battery voltage directly at the battery when someone steps on the starter button. If the battery voltage is near what you measured at the switch terminal, then the battery is bad. Measure the voltage at the battery terminals, not at the clamps for the cables.

If the battery voltage remains higher than you measured at the starter terminal, then put one lead from the voltmeter on the ground side of the battery and another one on a good ground point on the engine or transmission. Again, a starter bolt is a good place to measure ground. Have someone step on the starter button. If you get any voltage at all then you have a bad ground.

Repeat this test from the terminal at the starter button to the side of the battery that is connected to the cable to the switch. Again, if you get any voltage at all the cable is bad or too small. Both these tests can indicate a bad connection at the battery. Make sure the battery terminals are bright shinny metallic and also the clamps for the cables.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

30 years of storage - 1st things first. Clean all those connections. If that does not cure it take the battery to Parts America or Napa and they have a little thing they will clip on the battery and test if for you. Pretty sure it is a free service.

I used to work in the car business, some times a new battery is a bad battery.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Presuming it started OK thirty years ago, the first thought that came to me, as others: connections! Battery terminals shiny, clean out the cable ends, ground (especially) shiny and tight to shiny metal (not paint) on the frame. Supplemental ground between frame and engine, especially if you have Float-a-Motor mounts.

After that, knock off the other suggestions. On the battery load test, take it to several places. I’ve had my time wasted by too many “what kinda car is that for” know-nothings at the chain stores to trust a single test.

Another thought - you aren’t trying to start it with 30 year old oil, are you (shudder).

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Maybe I should say this.....Model-A fords are positive ground vehicles. MCOMMY I don't know what you are looking at, or what your skills are, so I appologize if this hurts you.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Thanks, everyone, for all the great suggestions! Currently the cabin is completely masked off while I repaint the running board aprons, but I will follow-up with all these leads as soon as I get access to the battery again and will report my findings.

(By the way, this is a bit embarrassing to admit, but I'm actually a retired electrical engineer and never thought to investigate a grounding connection issue!)

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Nice job on the aprons.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

Are you saying the starter was rebuilt 35 years ago,then parked? That grease in the bushings from a rebuild should be hard as a rock by now.The juicy components of any grease or oil in there has long since dried up.Take it apart,wash and re-lube,then see what happens.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

P.S. just posted a video where he suggested checking the amp draw for the starter off the car. In other words, take it to the bench, wire it up to a 6V battery with a clamp meter around the wire, and then turn it on and see how many amps it draws. He suggested that if it draws more than 80A then it needs to be repaired or replaced.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

I am on a small tour with some friends from my club. My starter stopped working. I took it apart and found the two wires from the terminal to the brush had broken off at the brush. There is no stress on this wire (that I know of) and I don't understand how this could have happened. Has anyone else had this problem?

The wires are now under the spring and contacting the brush and I put a small dab of JB Weld on it to hold it in place until I get home. Looks like it will work but I will wait until morning for the JB Weld to set up before re installing the starter. The ohm meter says it will work.

There must have been some stress from somewhere to break the wires off.

Update: The car has been starting fine all day but I have been parking on hills just in case. I think it will work until I get home in a couple of days. New brushes on order.

I would still like to know if anyone else had had this problem.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

@nkaminar thanks for the compliment on the aprons and also for the detailed instructions on chasing the starter issue. That's just the primer on the aprons. As soon as I'm done with the painting I'll again have access to the cabin and I'll let you know what I find.

Re: Engine just barely turning over - starter or battery?
 

If the voltage drops low when running the starter, it could also mean that the starter is binding up or the engine has a lot of drag. Keith True in Post #16 has a good point. Try turning the starter by hand (out of the engine) and if it turn with difficulty, than that could be your problem. Crank the engine by hand using the hand crank. If it is stiff then that could be your problem.